What happened to Europe?

[really]

I was referring to the Irish vote on the EU constitution, a vote that was canceled when it was clear the citizenry would not support it.

As to education, the EU doesn't crack the top five in the OCED's rankings of tertiary education whereas the US is number four or five. The future prospect for most EU nations to catch up isn't promising either.

You are conflating best and most. Germany doesn't rank highly by that metric but their technical education system is admired by many and linked to their relatve economic success.

Not having a referendum on something that had already been rejected by France and the Netherlands doesn't mean we want to leave. If anything the prospect of Brexit has clarified the importance of our membership of the EU.

 

[BvBPL]

http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2012 - Country note - European Union.pdf

Pg 13 of the above shows 28% of 25-64 yos.in the EU have obtained tertiary education. Contrast with 43% of US age cohorts.

As to the EU Constitution votes in Ireland and elsewhere, while they may not have resulted in departures (despite news coverage of the time) I think the issues related to ratifying that document certainly bruised some of the luster the early Union enjoyed.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2012 - Country note - European Union.pdf

Pg 13 of the above shows 28% of 25-64 yos.in the EU have obtained tertiary education as contested with 43% of US age cohorts.

Which brings us back to my original reply: Most of US tertiary education would not have been counted as tertiary education in Germany (and probably most of Europe) before the Bologna accord. Even today you're viewed as a dropout if you have a bachelor's but not a master's degree.

You're comparing two different systems by a metric that's only useful for one.

 

[REDY]

I was referring to the Irish vote on the EU constitution, a vote that was canceled when it was clear the citizenry would not support it.

Everybody voted against it who had possibility - France and Netherlands(?) too. In CZ would be like 80% against. Ireland is one of most europtimistic countries.

 

[BvBPL]

Which brings us back to my original reply: Most of US tertiary education would not have been counted as tertiary education in Germany (and probably most of Europe) before the Bologna accord. Even today you're viewed as a dropout if you have a bachelor's but not a master's degree.



You're comparing two different systems by a metric that's only useful for one.

So what's the comparable statistic for Germany?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

So what's the comparable statistic for Germany?

Equivalent to master's degree or higher.

 

[BvBPL]

So that's 10.9% in the US. What is it in Germany?

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/2...+of+us+with+masters+degree&a=results&MID=2500

 

[Gigaz]

Is this now the thread where we argue whether the American or the European penis is longer?

Both Americans and Europeans should try to acknowledge their weaknesses and strengths, and try to see whether the advantages of the other system can be emulated. The belief in American exceptionalism or European superiority are the worst stupidities of all. And most of all we need to look at the problems which we have here, but which have been solved elsewhere. And not the other way round, which is explaining someone else why they're doing it wrong.

 

[warpus]

In the 90s and early 2000s, Europe seemed so squarely ahead of us in the US. That switched so hard. What happened, and why did it happen?

The Mongol conquests of the 13th century ravaged..

Hmm wait, I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Hygro]

Europeans used to make Americans look dumb.

 

[uppi]

So that's 10.9% in the US. What is it in Germany?

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/2...+of+us+with+masters+degree&a=results&MID=2500

14.6% according to this:
https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFa...Bildungsstand/Tabellen/Bildungsabschluss.html

 

[Oruc]

Europeans used to make Americans look dumb.

Then we colonized the place

 

[Zkribbler]

Inflationary economic policies are fine for the US but the price will be paid by inflation of the US dollar.

Yes, yes, imminent runaway inflation has been warned about by right-wing economic "experts" for eight years now. You guys were wrong in 2009, wrong in 2010, wrong in 2011, wrong in 2012, wrong in 2013, wrong in 2014, wrong in 2015, and wrong in 2016.

P.S PAY DEBTS !

All U.S. debts are being timely paid. US bonds are generally accepted to be the safest investment in the world.

 

[Zkribbler]

Which brings us back to my original reply: Most of US tertiary education would not have been counted as tertiary education in Germany (and probably most of Europe) before the Bologna accord. Even today you're viewed as a dropout if you have a bachelor's but not a master's degree.

You're comparing two different systems by a metric that's only useful for one.

By anyone's metric, the U.S. leads the world in top university. E.g. Check out Wikipedia's article on top universities. It relies on the Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU), also known as Shanghai Ranking, is an annual publication of university rankings by Shanghai Ranking Consultancy.

 

[Daw]

ARWU is lopsided.

 

[warpus]

Europeans used to make Americans look dumb.

If we're going by generalizations and stereotypes then sure, stereotypes change over time. Some don't but some do. Some change only a bit over 2,000 years and some change completely in 5. Some are rooted in the truth, some are rooted in hate, some are probably rooted in alcohol, and some are rooted in whatever.

There are stupid Americans and stupid Europeans of varying degrees. There is a wide array of stupidity emanating from both continents and there indeed appears to be a lot more of it out there these days, but personally I think the average intelligence level is actually going up in most Western countries. What's happening is it's easy to assume that the small glimpses you get into another culture give you a good understanding about any significant part of it. Lots of stupid things are done every single day by millions of people on both continents, but that's been happening for a very long time, like basically ever since humans started walking around and doing things. Human beings excel in stupidity. Individually there are a lot of idiots on this planet, the only reason anything's been ever achieved, like agriculture, space flight, etc. is because human civilization has made us into a sort of super-being that has a mind of its own. It's easy enough for the media to focus on only a small percentage of all the stupid things done by human beings and push some sort of a narrative that ignores all the other stupidity that has been achieved.

There is also now a more global and connected social media in place, which adds even more layers and complexity to our perceptions of other people around the planet. Things are shifting and you're responding to media-influenced interpretations of events, and a secondary feed-back loop being created when the politicians voted into office respond to similar media pressures.

See, now it's complicated. So it's easier to just go with "When you're trying to compare the cultures of two continents such simple and black/white answers are probably very far from the truth"

Also "Both continents have been trying out-stupid each other for a while now and both are succeeding in different ways"

 

[christos200]

There are problems, like the economic crisis and the rise of populist parties in some countries, but generally speaking Europe remains the best place to live in the world. The austerity measures are beginning to pay off as almost all countries that underwent reforms (Portugal, Cyprus, etch) see their economies grow again. Greece is the exception only because when austerity began to pay off the Greeks elected a populist leftist government which ruined the economy. But the rest of the Eurozone economies are recovering from the crisis.

I believe that the best way to combat the problems that the EU has is further federalization. A common defensive and foreign policy is also needed. But I am confident that sooner or later the leaderships of EU countries will see the need for a federalized EU.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yes, yes, imminent runaway inflation has been warned about by right-wing economic "experts" for eight years now. You guys were wrong in 2009, wrong in 2010, wrong in 2011, wrong in 2012, wrong in 2013, wrong in 2014, wrong in 2015, and wrong in 2016.

Inflation of US dollar + stagnated wages = Price of Inflation.
If the US ever has hyper inflation the world economy is in the tank big time.

 

[Hygro]

Inflation of US dollar + stagnated wages = Price of Inflation.

what does this mean

 

[BvBPL]

There are problems, like the economic crisis and the rise of populist parties in some countries, but generally speaking Europe remains the best place to live in the world.

America is pretty swell too.

Europeans used to make Americans look dumb.

Ah, now maybe you have hit upon it! Maybe what you are seeing as the dimming of the promises of the EU is in fact the ascendency of the United States as a cultured, educated, and refined nation.