[RD] What is a Christian?

[Zkribbler]

Trumps latest executive order gives visa priority in war-torn Middle Eastern countries to "Christians."

To implement this order, the State Dept. and Dept. of Homeland Security are going to need a working definition of "Christian."

Example 1: If you're the head of a Muslim family in one of these war-torn states, you're going to want priority to get your family out. What evidence do you need to present to establish your family is "Christians."

Example 2: When the Bible was first put together, there were many versions of the gospel being used: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but also Mary, Judas, and many others. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were included in the new Bible; Mary and Judas, no. But let's say for thousands of years, you family has been worshiping Jesus using the Gospel of Judas. Under the eyes of the law, is your family Christian?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Looking for a legally definable state is going to be a nightmare...but of course everyone but Dingbat Don and his faithful know that. Biblically, a Christian is anyone who publicly professes their faith as a Christian, for sure, and in some views even the "publicly" is optional. So bottom line anyone who says they are, is.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Isn't it sufficient to ask if they worship Jesus? After all, he's presumably the common denominator in all the myriad varieties of Christianity.

 

[Cheetah]

Tim has it right. One can't tell, unless one can tell who is lying. And one can't tell who is lying about what they think.

 

[Arakhor]

Isn't it sufficient to ask if they worship Jesus? After all, he's presumably the common denominator in all the myriad varieties of Christianity.

Not if you don't believe that Jesus was God, which is certainly a minority view.

 

[Ajidica]

Not if you don't believe that Jesus was God, which is certainly a minority view.

Plus, the Middle East is full of weird little gnostic sects, such as the Yazidi, who despite often being called Christian for convenience sake don't really share any theological similarities with what an American would understand as Christianity.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Convert ten minutes ago, then chance your mind after you get your Visa.

 

[sophie]

Isn't it sufficient to ask if they worship Jesus? After all, he's presumably the common denominator in all the myriad varieties of Christianity.

What's to stop someone from simply answering, "yes"?

 

[Cutlass]

Least common denominator on who is a Christian is that they believe that Jesus lived, and that he was the son of God, and consider themselves followers of that religion. Many Muslims believed that Jesus lived, but was a prophet, and not the son of God.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What's to stop someone from simply answering, "yes"?

Nothing. That's why a law based on this is a clear absurdity that no sensible governing agent would touch...but then there's Mike Pence, who is no doubt a major motivating force behind this particular bit of inanity from Dingbat Don.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

What's to stop someone from simply answering, "yes"?

A conscience that says lying about such things is wrong?

But of course a terrorist would have no conscience about lying, and so I'd expect the people doing the vetting would have additional questions to ask and documents they would want produced.

Kinda like I can't get a job in a Catholic school in Alberta unless I produce documents proving that I'm Catholic.

Least common denominator on who is a Christian is that they believe that Jesus lived, and that he was the son of God, and consider themselves followers of that religion. Many Muslims believed that Jesus lived, but was a prophet, and not the son of God.

Hence my use of the word "worship."

 

[JollyRoger]

Shouldn't we be taking non-Christians so we can convert them? Why strip the Christians over there of their martyrdom?

 

[Birdjaguar]

If you wear a headscarf or carry a koran in your luggage, then you are not. They probably will ask the name of your church, sect or minister. They might even ask you to name three of Jesus' apostles or some other biblical question.

 

[sophie]

A conscience that says lying about such things is wrong?

But of course a terrorist would have no conscience about lying, and so I'd expect the people doing the vetting would have additional questions to ask and documents they would want produced.

When it's a matter of life and death a person will do anything it takes to survive.

A terrorist might not have a conscience about lying. A refugee, may, but again, if it's between achieving salvation with a guilty conscience, or being forced back to Syria and certain death, I for my part would opt against scruples.

If you wear a headscarf or carry a koran in your luggage, then you are not. They probably will ask the name of your church, sect or minister. They might even ask you to name three of Jesus' apostles or some other biblical question.

But then that's a religious test, though, right? Wouldn't those be unconstitutional?

 

[JollyRoger]

Even giving the preference is unconstitutional.

 

[Berzerker]

I dont think the Constitution protects refugees from religious tests

 

[JollyRoger]

The Constitution limits the government.

 

[aelf]

Hypocrisy is one of the common characteristics of Christians, so it's enough that you profess your faith verbally.

Moderator Action: Negatively characterising all members of a religion is considered trolling. This statement is just as unacceptable as 'hypocrisy is one of the common characteristics of Jews', or of any other religion. If you want to discuss each other's beliefs, do so from a position of respect and civility. FP

 

[Lillefix]

Important thing is that you're not Muslim. Let them eat pork.

 

[cardgame]

I think a pork test is the most efficient course, but my mom is Christian and allergic to pork to the point where she will become *violently* sick. Plus all the unconstitutionality.