What is your opinion on Venice possibly being included as a civ?

[phaethon16]

The "commercial and naval superpower" is probably just a more in depth look at Portugal. They could have a video similar to the Moroccan one, just focused on all the various trade aspects. Additionally, a lot of people have been clamoring for a look at the Portugal leader screen in action, so this is probably just satisfying that demand. The next featurette won't give anything civ related away, just fill in a few blanks like the caravansary and its evolution buildings. (By which I mean like monuments and amphitheaters.)

 

[JFD]

Okay. Well, sand can be found near pretty much anywhere. Caves can be found all over the world, too. And people use towels on their heads all the time, drying themselves off. So should I have been offended when people said that I hide out in caves and live in the sand? When my family and I were called a bunch of towelheads? Was that not racist, either?

Racism is not about causing offense. Now please don't derail this thread. I'd like to keep watching the numbers.

 

[Luziadus]

Neither are trade civilizations, which is the focus of the expansion. Israel lost its chance for inclusion at G&K.

i dont see Zulu neither Poland as trade civs nor culture.

 

[ldvhl]

i dont see Zulu neither Poland as trade civs nor culture.

And yet we still know Israel isn't in (Jerusalem is a CS), and alphabet theory rules out Cuba.

 

[Luziadus]

The "commercial and naval superpower" is probably just a more in depth look at Portugal. They could have a video similar to the Moroccan one, just focused on all the various trade aspects. Additionally, a lot of people have been clamoring for a look at the Portugal leader screen in action, so this is probably just satisfying that demand. The next featurette won't give anything civ related away, just fill in a few blanks like the caravansary and its evolution buildings. (By which I mean like monuments and amphitheaters.)

here you can see a bit of action and voice of Maria I of Portugal at 1:19 minute:

http://uk.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-c...-brave-new-world-culture-and-tourism-6408209/

 

[fuzzatron717]

What's the current chance of them being included please use percentage please no going over a 100%.

 

[Gucumatz]

Extremely high, so much so its a near certainty

 

[Pikachao]

I really don't mind Venice very much, they sound cool and the only reason I didn't want them in before was because people were saying it would hurt Indonesia's chances of getting in. Now that Indonesia's been confirmed I'll say "cool" to Venice.

 

[alpha2117]

What's the current chance of them being included please use percentage please no going over a 100%.

Look I have them at 99%

Menzies initially analysis of the CS replacement patterns put it at about 80% that some form of Italy or Venice was in based on Riga having Venice's CS colors and type. Since that had only ever happened when a CS was being put into a Civ I had it at 80% given the number of times that had happened wasn't huge so there was room for the possibility of something else happening but it replacement was the most logical explanation.

Subsequent information

The achievement list indicating the last 2 civs are between Por and Zul
Kate saying a Euro civ is to come.
Almost the exact colors being found on a Wikipedia Map
The "Serene" comment from the PC Gamer preview
The minimap indicating a coastal cultured civ
Various CS's ruling out most logical choices from Europe between Por - Zul

All the evidence is circumstantial but the sheer weight of it and the fact that no other logical choices seemingly evident I'm going to leave 1% chance that something like the Visigoths is the Euro choice but even then it's a stretch to get to 1%.

By the by much like Menzies I dislike the idea of Venice but if it's in it's in and theres not much use in complaining about it.

 

[The QC]

I have warmed up to Venice. In fact, I think my initial feeling that it's a terrible idea was based on ignorance. Venice had nearly a thousand years of being an independent and quite unique nation. It also expanded territorially much more than I thought - it was a legitimate empire. It's also a nice representation of medieval/renaissance Italy, without overlapping too much with Rome.

 

[MooFreaky]

It's a great choice. I think most of the issues people have with Venice is that they do not really know the history. As such many people think of it as "another Italian civ". While Venice and Rome may be from an area that is now Italy, neither of them are particularly Italian. They have influenced modern Italy absolutely, but they also did similarly for many other countries directly and indirectly (even the pillars of the courts in Australia, America and such are of Greco-Roman stylings).

 

[Ikael]

I am conflicted regarding the inclussion of Venice.

In one hand, we don't get many sea-oriented cultured civs, and its unique history makes for a great deal of different approaches regarding this civ (the venetian arsenal, patronate of the arts, Mediterranean trade routes, etc), and it is a great way of representing Italy without overlapping with Rome.

In the other hand, I have the same problems that I have with the inclussion of of random North American tribes: there are much more bigger, influential and (yes) important civs such as the Khmer, Vietnam, Tibet, Ashanti or Kongo to be included rather than these two.

 

[ldvhl]

In the other hand, I have the same problems that I have with the inclussion of of random North American tribes: there are much more bigger, influential and (yes) important civs such as the Khmer, Vietnam, Tibet, Ashanti or Kongo to be included rather than these two.

Statements like this are not indicative of what should be in Civ; rather, they're a declaration of the poster's education and bias.

 

[Ikael]

Statements like this are not indicative of what should be in Civ; rather, they're a declaration of the poster's education and bias.

Relativism gonna relativitizate, I guess alas, I will not derail the tread with this topic

 

[lacond]

since I Know that Venice probably won't be the most surpending civ, or Hypercube or bombshell, I adopted Venice at 99%.

 

[ahawk]

I might be beginning to accept the thought of including Venice.

I still maintain, as before, that including Venice would be a tad like including Sparta, or Silesia, or Brittany rather than Greece, Poland, or France. Which is a little jarring, given that the over-arcing civilizations have usually been the ones that actually appear this time around.

However, when I consider BNW as a whole, Venice would fit in nicely with trade-routes, tourism, etc. I've had to keep in mind that Venice may not be the bombshell, and that the non-European civ may be the odd one out. After all, it wasn't actually confirmed that the Euro civ is the odd-ball, is it? As lacond said above, Venice, when you consider it probably won't be the super-weird civ because of how well it fits into trade mechanics, actually isn't a bad choice. Part of my hang-up before was because I kept thinking the European civ had been confirmed as the abnormal one.

 

[Arachnofiend]

The bombshell civ is attached to the "most serene" hint that was given by a previewer, so yeah it's probably Venice. Unless you want to argue that the previewer's bombshell civ and Kate's hypercube are not the same civ, which is entirely possible because opinions.

 

[Colmar]

Statements like this are not indicative of what should be in Civ; rather, they're a declaration of the poster's education and bias.

Everyone has a bias, and there's no perfect formula for determining what should be in.

 

[ldvhl]

Everyone has a bias, and there's no perfect formula for determining what should be in.

Exactly. If people would simply advocate for the civs they were interested in, there would be no conflict; however, once people say we should have X instead of Y, opinions become a breeding ground for conflict where nobody really has a solid leg to stand on.

 

[seancolorado]

Exactly. If people would simply advocate for the civs they were interested in, there would be no conflict; however, once people say we should have X instead of Y, opinions become a breeding ground for conflict where nobody really has a solid leg to stand on.

That's the best way to do it. If there are enough people in favor, then it won't matter what negative things people have to say against them - those people never have a real argument anyway

That should be the rule of thumb around here (when comparing): Campaign for a civ, not against it