What should people be "entitled" to?

[warpus]

People keep saying liberty. What do you mean by that? It seems like a useless talking word that doesn't really mean anything.

So what do you mean when you say "liberty"? I bet I'm going to get different answers here from different people.. So why not just let go of that word and say exactly what you mean instead? Is it because it rolls off the tongue so nicely?

 

[Borachio]

Liberty is just another word for freedom.

And freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. (Thanks, Janis.)

 

[Zelig]

People keep saying liberty. What do you mean by that? It seems like a useless talking word that doesn't really mean anything.

So what do you mean when you say "liberty"? I bet I'm going to get different answers here from different people.. So why not just let go of that word and say exactly what you mean instead? Is it because it rolls off the tongue so nicely?

I assume they mean no literal slavery unless they specify otherwise.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Liberty - you should be free to do what you want as long as it does not infringe upon another's rights.

This seems like a solid definition of liberty to me

 

[Borachio]

It demands you define what another's rights are, though.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Well I would define rights as a sort of rule about what people are allowed to do or obtain. Example: "the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

What I feel you really want to know is what are the rights people have, which is a sticky subject. Not everyone agrees on what a persons rights would include, as evident by this thread.

 

[timtofly]

It demands you define what another's rights are, though.

Their rights are also liberty? If you start telling other people what their rights are would that not infringe on their liberty?

 

[Borachio]

I don't see how that follows.

If I tell someone how tall they are (after measuring them), does that make them taller or shorter?

 

[timtofly]

It means they let you get close enough to measure them, unless you did it without asking and then they may say that they already knew that information.

 

[illram]

A healthy nutritional diet sufficient to meet caloric needs, clean water, some base-level of income, a sanitary, safe place to live that affords you some privacy, education (primary, secondary, or some sort of job training), safety, and healthcare (mental and physical).

Basically what you are entitled to should be base level requirements that ideally allow you to become more self sufficient and achieve your goals.

 

[Flying Pig]

I suppose the follow-up question would be to ask who is responsible for guaranteeing these rights, and what sort of condemnation and punishment, if any, they should suffer for failing to do so.

 

[timtofly]

I don't see government at being that effective towards that goal. If anything it separates and widens the divide.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's a tough question to answer, because there's no more room to homestead. Every single piece of property is owned, and so any piece of property has an owner who can very legitimately charge you rent for being there.

So, in my estimation, you have the right to clean air (and, someone taking away that clean air is actually performing an act of violence against you). You have the right to the money other people are willing to give you.

That said, a society that only practices these rights for their own citizens is kinda stupid. You want to supply at least maintenance levels of food, shelter, and education.

 

[MobBoss]

Life isn't fair, ergo, nobody is 'entitled' to anything actually.

 

[JollyRoger]

No one is entitled to life being fair, that's for sure.

 

[MobBoss]

No one is entitled to life being fair, that's for sure.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[JollyRoger]

As you are entitled to.

 

[Berzerker]

nice to see you, Mobby

It demands you define what another's rights are, though.

they're the same for everyone, including you

 

[Souron]

Life isn't fair, ergo, nobody is 'entitled' to anything actually.

I don't see how that follows. Life may be unfair at times, but that does not mean that society shouldn't seek fairness or not provide minimal rights and privileges to all members.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't see how that follows. Life may be unfair at times, but that does not mean that society shouldn't seek fairness or not provide minimal rights and privileges to all members.

"Life's not fair" is really just another way of saying, "I don't care about the problems of others and want to remove my responsibility to help them."