What should the US response Be?

[VoodooAce]

Yeeeee Haaaaaw!

Come on, sun tzu....very bad taste.

<img src="icon9.gif" border="0">

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: VoodooAce ]</p>

 

[gjts00]

Originally posted by jedi rat:<br /><strong>Blue Monday:<br />Do you know how many Islam extremists live around?<br />Can you kill them all?<br />Do you think you scare them? They kill themselves to kill others so death will not keep them away. Killing of some of leaders will give you some peace for a while, but WILL NOT solve problems!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

<br />That's funny. I recall a nation that started not one, but two world wars, that got spanked not once, but twice. After we (the Allies) knocked the will to behave in such a barbaric/evil manner out of them, we (the Allies) picked them up & and helped them to rebuild. Now, they are a productive part of the civilized world community. What makes you (jedi rat) think that it can't happen again???

 

[jedi rat]

GTS00 go and read a book about Islam and its followers. As long as you do not understand them you will never understand the problem. Please try to figure out difference between Nazis and Islam fanatics. You (as a normal, innocent, wealthy, well fed American) think that death will scare them. Hm&#8230;.. I wish that was a case!

 

[Magnus]

regarding the American (and world response):

the only Afghan I would want to be right now is the breed of dog! <img src="graemlins/spinsmile.gif" border="0" alt="[Spin Smile]" />

 

[mrog]

Clearly there will be a strong military response, and rightly so. Military power alone will not solve the problem, however. I think we need to distinguish between those who plan and direct such horrible acts and the disaffected communities from whom they feed.

Those who plan and enable such acts deserve no mercy. Such people will, however, always have a power base so long as they have access to enough frustrated and angry people who feel unjustly treated by the West. The policies of powerful nations affect people all over the world and sometimes harm them. This can never be entirely avoided (on the simple principle that you can't please everybody) but clearly there areas in the world where we could do better.

So (for what it's worth)my opinion is that revenge plus a look at ourselves seems the way ahead.

 

[Siggy]

All Europeans should shut up about what the US should do???

Come on... This is not a strictly American forum. Internet is an international medium and as far as I am considered: it is a democratic one. In a democracy there is something called freedom of speech.

Offcourse America has to go to "war". They can't afford to do nothing. I guess they will be sitting ducks when they don't do anything. However it is unrealistic that international terrorism can be wiped from the face of the earth by military action. If a terrorist group is knocked out there will be another group in its place; a story without end. If the US reacts with extreme force, I am sure there will be more terrorist acts comparable to those of september 11th. This is going to be a tricky time.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Why are you guys so busy bashing someone else?<br />I feel every bit as attacked as anyone who lives in America. I have friends living in America. This is like it happened next door to me.

I feel we have been living superficially, thinking "we are protected" -when we are not. How can we not wake up from this dream of the past, every nation for himself; every man for himself? It is foolish to wage wars, just for retaliation. It is necessary to wage wars, when we need to protect ourselves and our values.

It is not just the US who has been attacked. It is all of us. And should we wage war, it should be with clear intent to solve the problems we face. Not for a cause, not for a nation or belief. Not in the name of God. But because we want to live peacefully, without fear.

It is an illusion to think that we in the western world can ever "just mind our own business" anymore. Or, more appropriately, if we really want to mind our own business and live in peace, we need to involve ourselves much more deeply with other people and the problems they're facing. Which might include military action -most probably- with all that this takes, BUT much more importantly, some real soul-searching on part of ourselves. Because something surely has gone wrong. This is a wake-up call from God.

Amen.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Morten Blaabjerg ]</p>

 

[David Prosser]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae:<br /><strong>Enough of this.

Anyone who thinks the US brought this on itself is a fool, and a moron.

This was indeed, an attack on humanity.

The time for talk is over.

This is war.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<br />[DJP] Got it in one! My sincerest condolences to everyone who was killed, injured, or lost loved ones in these terror attacks.there will need to be a multi step solution.

If Osama bin liner is behind this, and the Taliban are still sheltering them ; Dubya should contact them and say: OK, you have 24 hours to hand over Osama bin liner and his henchmen, or you will hear from Strategic Air Command. But but but ... Now you have 23 hours and fiftynine minutes. Click.America rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[allan]

America HAS to do something.

Before September 11, I have been saying time and again that we need to get out of the Middle East, because they don't WANT peace, they don't WANT compromise, and therefore we should let them fight themselves until THEY decide they can't take it anymore and want peace.... We have tried to lead the horse to water, but it didn't drink....

And yes I still believe this, BUT the circumstances are different now. WE have been attacked, and WE must respond with precise and deadly force. We must not give the bin Ladens ANYTHING they want in the meantime, even what I said above (that can come later), or else they will believe their tools of terror work, and will be encouraged to use them more often.... WE CANNOT LET THEM BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND that doing these things will get them what they want--even if some of us (like me) may have wanted to do those things they want beforehand. We must send a clear message that such terror is impotent, and will only serve to bring great suffering upon those who would use terror.

If it is bin Laden (and we will soon know), then we must completely break him--in fact, dying in a war would be TOO easy for him (and would make him a martyr, even though if there is an Allah, He'd probably send the bastard to hell)--I hope we find where he's hiding, snatch him up, haul him to trial, try him first in New York state court for murder on how ever many thousand counts, and then let him rot in Attica prison where his rectum will soon be as large as those holes were in the WTC (the general population in prison would treat him as they do child molesters and other human garbage)....

But we must also make EVERY country on earth afraid to harbor such people--so if we make an example of Afghanistan and Iraq, these countries and others will take better care to watch who comes in their borders, bribes their lower officials, etc. We need a worldwide crackdown on terrorism, and there can be NO EXCUSES for any country to knowingly allow them sanctuary....

And we should crack down on ALL known terrorists, because even those that only killed a few in other acts are still guilty of those acts, and should be punished as well....

And it will take not only the US, but Russia, China, the EU, and some Mideast nations as well to bring this about--and I think we will have this cooperation....

We can only stop terrorism through deterrence--through assurance that the penalty for terrorism will be swift, cold, and brutal. This is what terrorists understand--and it is NOT what they expect from us (but it should be, now)....

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

T0 Allan:

Right on Brother! That is what we have to do.<br />I just tottaly agree.<br />Right now ,we have to fight terrorism all toghether.To insure our safety.

 

[G-Man]

The US must totaly wipe out any goverment (not citizens) that has ever supported Bin-Laden. They aren't stupid. They knew he was a terrorist and they knew he was working against the US. If they still helped him they knew they were funding an attack on the US. The US should get into Iraq, get Saddam to the international court, then go to Afghanistan and do the same to the Talibahn and to Bin Laden. And don't let his orgenization live on. Don't leave a thing of his training camps, his bunkers, his heavy weapons or his private army.<br />You won't stop world wide terror, but you'll give it a major setback

 

[allan]

Put the fear of God into any nation that would even CONSIDER harboring terrorists in the future--by making an example of those that do now....

Civilians die in ANY war, but we should try to minimize these as much as possible. Just destroy all government and military installations and transportation networks, then later move in and rebuild the PEACEFUL infrastructure after a friendly government takes their place (or a UN occupation government, probably more necessary at least in the short term).... If this is overall a CLEAN fight, then we will have set the kind of example for warfare that we want to set, and have the respect of the world. If it's too dirty, we won't....

BTW, how did you get that mech infantry put under your member name?

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: allan ]

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: allan ]</p>

 

[woke25]

Allan said: Civilians die in ANY war, but we should try to minimize these as much as possible. Just destroy all government and military installations and transportation networks, then later move in and rebuild the PEACEFUL infrastructure after a friendly government takes their place (or a UN occupation government, probably more necessary at least in the short term)<hr></blockquote><br />Basically this is conquering the world. You conquer countries and take over command. Citizens of this country do not accept this. the problem will stay or get even bigger. Because now you have the entire people of the occupied country against you. You can not compare this with Germans or Japanese. Islam culture do not care about their lives. In fact, they WANT to die for their believe rather then to live. Afganistan welcomes war with America, because that is their chance to get in Heaven.<br />With every rebel you kill, 10 will stand up. The only way to destroy the possibility for terrorism, is to cripple the Middle eastern economies even more as it already is, turning them back to the middle ages.

In short: you have to bomb the entire middle east economy, instead of their armies and government.

G-man said: The US must totaly wipe out any goverment (not citizens) that has ever supported Bin-Laden. They aren't stupid. They knew he was a terrorist and they knew he was working against the US. If they still helped him they knew they were funding an attack on the US. The US should get into Iraq, get Saddam to the international court, then go to Afghanistan and do the same to the Talibahn and to Bin Laden. And don't let his orgenization live on. Don't leave a thing of his training camps, his bunkers, his heavy weapons or his private army.<br />You won't stop world wide terror, but you'll give it a major setback<hr></blockquote><br />For a while, but i think it will come back much stronger. There are far too many fanaics that will see this as an attack on the Islam. Those who werent entirely confinced already, will now be. This will turn the entire Islam against America, instead of the small party now.

Allen said: Before September 11, I have been saying time and again that we need to get out of the Middle East, because they don't WANT peace, they don't WANT compromise, and therefore we should let them fight themselves until THEY decide they can't take it anymore and want peace.... We have tried to lead the horse to water, but it didn't drink.... <hr></blockquote><br />I entirely and uterly agree

Marten Blaadjerg said: It is an illusion to think that we in the western world can ever "just mind our own business" anymore. Or, more appropriately, if we really want to mind our own business and live in peace, we need to involve ourselves much more deeply with other people and the problems they're facing. Which might include military action -most probably- with all that this takes, BUT much more importantly, some real soul-searching on part of ourselves. Because something surely has gone wrong. This is a wake-up call from God.<hr></blockquote>

I completely agree with this as well. I believe we need to start some good world wide dialogs between Christians and Islam, about everything: culture, believes, economics, human rights.

I do agree with military action though, but only limited and very focused on target and only if nothing others worked.

America should:<br />-set ultimatum for handing over terrorists<br />-destroy terrorist networks<br />-capture terrorist key persons.<br />-lock them up, not kill them!

A locked up Osamma Ben Laden is far more powerfull against terrorism then kill him. This will be a great opportunity to learn about the thinking and believing of these kind of persons. A strong believe about the motives of these people is important to prevent it in the future.

Let us talk to these people. I want to know what they think. 18 People who study and prepare years to get themselfed killed crashing into a building surely have a valid point for doing so. It's impossible that they have no valid reason for this.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: woke23 ]</p>

 

[Magnus]

This kind of war should be run as surgical special forces strikes that culminate in assassinations of the leaders of these groups. Get the best of the best special forces from around the world, head into the middle east and do some 'headhunting' of the baddest of the bad - without leadership, the terrorist organizatrions will fall into chaos and cease to be effetual for many years to come.

 

[woke25]

Killing them would be such a waste. why not capture them and talk with them? these leaders are extremely intelligent people. You have to be to organize such attacks and coordinate it, and also be able to keep unseen by satilites, CIA and all other Information technoligy in the current world.

We need to learn from these people by talking with them. Only when you understand the real problems, you can end it.

 

[Magnus]

ahhh, woke23, while I admire your idealistic views, I should think that any captured terrorist wouldn't say squat - if they are willing to die for their cause, they would rather die than spill their guts to the enemy... that is unless you support torture as a means for information... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by woke23:<br /><strong>Killing them would be such a waste. why not capture them and talk with them? these leaders are extremely intelligent people. You have to be to organize such attacks and coordinate it, and also be able to keep unseen by satilites, CIA and all other Information technoligy in the current world.

We need to learn from these people by talking with them. Only when you understand the real problems, you can end it.</strong><hr></blockquote><br />Woke you are a fool, and a dangerous one at that.

The time for talk is done.

You think you could have talked your way off those airliners?

The real problem is we let this fester without taking action.

This is war, you fool.

10,000 dead dictate nothing else, though I don't expect someone as spineless as yourself to understand.

 

[woke25]

Alcibiaties of Athenae never say i am a fool. <br />-Why am I a fool?<br />-Why am I a dangerous fool?<br />All i want is to TALK and UNDERSTAND the problem. Can you READ? I do not agree to this attack. I want the ones who did it punished as well. I only want to open my mind for what they have to say. <br />HOW IS THAT DANGEROUS OR FOOLISH?????

If you put Osamma Ben Laden in a prisson or better: in a more or less free and open society with people of many other cultures, he will start thinking. You will see that he has to adapt. He will have to make new friends, new conversations. He will be forced to think differently.

In the Netherlands, we have these centres where we give refugees from other countries shelter. They are all together in 1 house. These are all kind of cultures together. Even sworn enemies. You NEVER see any fights in these places. The people have nothing but eachother, and you see how they listen to eachother.

I KNOW that all persons are essentially the same. If you take them out of their environment and bring them back to the basics, they are all the same. This is exactly what we have to do, everyone in the world. Talk on an equal level about these things.

But ofcourse we do not want this. Why would we give up our wealth for a bunch of desert rats? or camel ****ers?

Lets open our eyes instead of talking with weaponry! this forum is a chance for that. we are all equal on these forums, we have no weapons, religion doesnt count here, money doesnt count. We are all equal on these forums, lets use that for a good discussion!

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: woke23 ]</p>

 

[Rangers, Lead the Way]

Originally posted by woke23:<br />I completely agree with this as well. I believe we need to start some good world wide dialogs between Christians and Islam, about everything: culture, believes, economics, human rights.<hr></blockquote>

You're naive, honeybuns. Most Moslems all over the world are repulsed by this butchery. The hardline fanatics that support this **** would sooner slit your throat and laugh while you bleed your idealistic little life out, than participate in "dialogs." They have called for jihad. They have declared jihad. Most Moslems reject this. They are not our enemies. Those who support jihad, we'll ****ing give them more than they dreamed of. The mother****ers want to get close to Allah? We will accomodate all who apply.

WE are not indiscriminate butchers of the innocent. WE do not declare entire peoples our enemy. THEY did that, and we will hunt those cocksuckers and all who aid them.

I do agree with military action though, but only limited and very focused on target and only if nothing others worked.<hr></blockquote>

Our political leadership in the west have collectively been pussies dealing with these people - European nations informally accomodating Islamic jihad's personnel transit in return for not having actions carried out within their borders, handwringing over sovereignty of countries harboring terrorist camps, so SOF's are denied the authority to clean out these shitholes before they can carry out their actions, debate after debate, handwringing after handwringing.

Wake up - do you see where the **** that got us? We've been soft on these mother****ers for too long. Blow up an embassy, we'll flip a few million dollar cruise missiles at some random and meaningless target. It's time to get ass in the grass, up close and personal, and KILL THESE COCKSUCKERS! Then we can negotiate.

America should:<br />-set ultimatum for handing over terrorists<br />-destroy terrorist networks<br />-capture terrorist key persons.<br />-lock them up, not kill them!<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, why don't you be the one to walk up and say, "Ecthcuthe me, mithter bin Laden, thir, you're under arretht. Won't you cum with me, pretty please?" In case you weren't aware, these ****ers are armed and ready to die for their "cause." We don't get more of our people killed trying to play cops and robbers with these *******s, we accomodate their desire to get closer to Allah.

A locked up Osamma Ben Laden is far more powerfull against terrorism then kill him. This will be a great opportunity to learn about the thinking and believing of these kind of persons. A strong believe about the motives of these people is important to prevent it in the future.<hr></blockquote>

Did it occur to you that (a) we already know a lot about the thinking of these *******s, from those prisoners who have been caught? and (b) We know the motives of the *******s, they're all to happy to broadcast it to the world. They called for a jihad, why don't you read their ****ing communiques.

Let us talk to these people. I want to know what they think. 18 People who study and prepare years to get themselfed killed crashing into a building surely have a valid point for doing so.<hr></blockquote>

Next time, fly with 'em.

It's impossible that they have no valid reason for this.<hr></blockquote>

Who gives a ****? We're concerned with physical prevention, not rationalization.

P.s. SunTzu and Alcibiaties of Athenae, please grow up?<hr></blockquote>

Please join the real world, or stay the **** out of the way of those of us who are here, and know what has to be done.

I grew up a long time ago, in the ME in 82, on Grenada in 83, and now, in the World Trade Center in 2001.<br />Where I saw things first hand, not from the safty of my home or school, as you seem to be doing.<hr></blockquote>

AoA knows, for those who don't - mine was Grenada, Panama, and the Gulf.

<br />(by AoA)<br />Your Naievte has no place here. <br />The world has changed, you damn fool.<br />We are not "locking" anyone up.<br />They will die for there crimes against humanity, just like the 19 friends who's funerals I will go to, and the uncounted thousands who are also dead.

You can't talk with terrorists, you can't reason with terrorists, they will kill you.<br />It is YOU sir, that needs to grow up, and start understanding that the old world is dead, it died tuesday, the 11 of september, 2001.<br />

<hr></blockquote>

The man speaks the truth. We've been on the line enough to see it clearly. You need to wake up, and catch up, because your safe, secure, comfy world can end any time, any place, just like it did for thousands.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Rangers, Lead the Way ]</p>

 

[Cropduster]

These extremist governments, radical terrorists, and whole populations have been brainwashed. These governments must go, these terrorists must go, and the people that dance in the streets can all go. After they are all gone, we can begin to talk about a peaceful world, but not before.