What would you do if the USA actually nuked Iran?

So, saw some report in the paper today about Bush refusing to rule out a nuclear strike on Iran or something. I really don't think he would be dumb enough to actually nuke Iran, but it got me thinking - if he did what you do about it?

I don't think that typical nukes were being considered, rather a few tactical nukes of extremely small yield for taking out bunkers.

I wouldn't be terribly upset if the US used tactical nukes of this kind. They are rather harmless.


Would you just sit on here and complain? Would you support it? Or would you protest? If you did protest to what extent would it be?

It depends on the circumstances. If it is absolutely necessary to take out their nuclear capability, then I won't complain.


And what do you think consequences of such a strike would be? How would the world react?

Probably a case where they publicly condemn us, but secretly thank us.
 
No, they wouldn't. Even a kilaton nuke explosion on site would send ripples through the earth that would liquify the ground in the immediate vicinity. Such a weapon would devestate any underground stucture in at least a square mile probably.

You need to think about how a depth charge, because ground takes on the characterisitcs of a fluid under such forces. Direct contact with a compression wave through a material as dense as dirt/rock would be many times more devastating than air or water. A depth charge will turn a mans bones to dust if they are in the water. Similarly the destuctive power of an air burst comes from the compression wave. Ground is a MUCH more efficient medium for shock waves.

"Lots" is relative, which in terms of nuclear weapons is more accurately phrased as "insignificant." In any case, those were for our most powerful nuke tests, these bombs are rated in the single kiloton range or there about.

I understand the physics, but it's believed that the Natanz and Isfahan facilities are hardened such that a 1kT weapon wouldn't destroy them. You'd have to use a larger weapon, which would produce much more fallout.

Feel free to watch any underground test to see what happens. It creats a crater by compacting and moving the ground at the immediate point of detination into which the surface then falls. No huge plume. I am sure you can find them on youtube.

Surely you understand that a bomb dropped from an airplane isn't packed away and sealed off from the outside like an underground test, right? If you look at the history of underground tests (at least in Nevada), when the seal failed, there was a lot of radiation released. There's no way that you could protect against that with a dropped bomb. Here's a good article on containment of low-yield nuclear weapons.

They are horrific, but to pretend they are automatically more horrific than other forms or warfare because of their magic "nuclear" title is ********. Nukes, like all weapons, are as destructive (explosive wise) as their yield and no more. A kiloton explosion underground is a kiloton explosion underground, regardless of the source.

Excellent use of "(explosive wise)" to hedge your claim. Of course a nuclear explosion is only as powerful as the explosion. But there are other effects to detonating a nuclear weapon near a major city (as would have to be the case in Isfahan). Your statement is essentially, "Except for the radiation and fallout, a nuclear weapon is just like a big bomb." While true, it's meaningless.

Cleo
 
I understand the physics, but it's believed that the Natanz and Isfahan facilities are hardened such that a 1kT weapon wouldn't destroy them. You'd have to use a larger weapon, which would produce much more fallout.

You realize that the best hardened structures money could buy in 91 and 03 proved completely ineffectual in the face of conventional bunker busters right? In both those wars most of those bombs were not purpose built, just regular Vietnam era iron bombs with a piercing and guidence kit slapped on them. those bombs are capable of penetrating dozens of meters underground through multiple reinforced concrete barriers. In this case, we are talking about a purpose built nuclear bomb. All we have to do is pierce the skin at any point in that facility, and the 1 kiloton bomb will to the rest whether the facility is the size of a football field or a city block. Classic armor versus bullet scenario.

And btw, once under the reinforced bunker exterior, that will be a hell of a better seal for the blast than anything the Nevada tests every had.

Surely you understand that a bomb dropped from an airplane isn't packed away and sealed off from the outside like an underground test, right? If you look at the history of underground tests (at least in Nevada), when the seal failed, there was a lot of radiation released. There's no way that you could protect against that with a dropped bomb. Here's a good article on containment of low-yield nuclear weapons.

What, do you think there is a happy acme style rabit hole left when the bomb penetrates? And as I already told you, your Nevada tests are for significantly more powerful bombs, sometimes on the order of hundreds of times more powerful than we are talking about here.

Excellent use of "(explosive wise)" to hedge your claim.

When talking about the destuction of the targeted facility it is the only relevant metric, unless you are going to maintain we can radiation dose the thing into oblivion.

But there are other effects to detonating a nuclear weapon near a major city (as would have to be the case in Isfahan). Your statement is essentially, "Except for the radiation and fallout, a nuclear weapon is just like a big bomb." While true, it's meaningless.

The ground tremors will be the only immediate and significant effect to nearby communities, which might be serious depending on building quality. It is a simply fact that the VAST majority (if not all) of the radiation will be burried deep underground. Your fallout scenario is just plain stupid, any plume would not be large enough for significant dispersal. The weapons we are talking about are simply too small.

Any who advocated nuking every little facility? Most don't need nukes (probably all).
 
Patroklos,

I posted an article that's pretty good. You can read it if you want (you obviously hadn't before you replied, since it addressed at least one of the points you brought up). I've done a lot of research on the issue of using nuclear weapons against Iran's facilities. I've met with and talked to experts. Of course, you have no reason to believe me. I'm quite sure you're wrong, but arguing isn't going to get anywhere.

Cleo
 
Something tells my my access to information on this as well as experts is vastly superior to you. Just a hunch.
 
Something tells my my access to information on this as well as experts is vastly superior to you. Just a hunch.

Maybe, I really don't know. It could be that you're disclosing secret military information under an alias on the Internet. ;) I just wanted to let readers know that what you had written is not beyond dispute. There are lots of people, from military officers, to international lawyers, to scientists, who think that those effects of nuclear weapons are unavoidable.

Cleo
 
You had me fooled until "international lawyers," now I don't know if your words hold any merit at all ;)
 
Meh. Too unrealistic.

If Bush would just "shock and awe" Iran... Now that would merit a little victory dance.
 
One thing is certain and that is that the US won't nuke Iran with high-yield weapons.
 
Okay, its fine as long as you guys only use low-yield weapons.

If this was Civ though, everyone would declare war on you. Which is what I hope would happen of course. I have some vendettas to take care of with some in the States.
 
Not even Bush is that stupid, nor is Cheney.

I think that there are instances where the full extent of human stupidity does not appear to us due to time issues. That is the stupid not being at the right place at the right time. If only Bush had another 4 years..... He can still change the constitution. If Caesar did it why shouldn't Bush ?
 
Is "join a protest-cum-riot to the US Embassy" an option?
 
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