When Should Parents be Obeyed?

[GhostWriter16]

I was discussing something along these lines with someone, and I was just wondering, where do you draw the line with obedience to parents? Should you obey them no matter what? Are certain commands unfair enough to be disobeyed or even rebelled against? Do kids have a duty to obey their parents at all?

OK, I was being a Devil's Advocate with that last question and I definitely think the answer to it is "Yes" and to me I'm more concerned with the first two questions, however, I inserted the last question for the sake of anyone who sees fit to argue that the answer is "No."

Basically, the argument in favor of obedience goes like this. Your parents are older, and so they deserve a higher level of respect, but more importantly, they are the ones paying for your food, place of residence, exc. Therefore, in return for that right, you "Owe them" certain things, even if those commands aren't the most fair or considerate, some people will argue that the fact that your parents provide your food, shelter, clothes, exc. than you have a duty to obey.

Others may argue that, in fact, those things that your parents provide are inherent rights anyway, and so therefore it could be unfair to force your will on someone just because you provide their needs. According to this argument, kids should be able to, to a greater or lesser degree, have freedom, and parents can't or shouldn't restrict this freedom just because the kid is dependent on them.

I suspect most people fall under some sort of balance between the two.

I will note that nothing I have said here, so far, is necessarily my personal decision. I want to see a structured discussion on the issue (Note that I used the Red Diamond.) I don't want to see one liners, such as "Kids these days, can't learn to respect their parents", nor do I want to see "Parents have no authority over their kids, they are people too" or any similar one-liners. This is a very nuanced issue, and it deserves a bit of attention. Almost everyone agrees parents have some sort of authority, and so if you disagree, you have to provide some reasoning. Similarly, most people don't think a kid should obey if the command is in violation of their rights, though again, what these rights are is a valid discussion, and if you disagree with that premise, you kind of need reasoning there as well.

Also, note that while the specific discussion is about kids, and WHEN they should obey their parents, or when it is acceptable to disobey/rebel, if ever, discussion about what rules are just and unjust is completely acceptable provided it establishes a framework for the greater issue at hand. However, I'd rather this thread not become a debate about parental strictness, the issue is a bit more complex than that, and it should be treated as so.

Also note that what age kids should have what levels of freedom is a subject applicable to the topic, so feel free to discuss it. Obviously more independence will be given to a 15 year old than a 5 year old.

Also note that for Option 11, "Reasonable command" is based on your other choices, so if you said "All fair commands should be obeyed" and you also choose option 11, you are suggesting that kids should obey any fair commands, no matter what their age, as long as they live in their parents' home.

 

[Tani Coyote]

It can be hard to objectively rate a parent's performance, but good parents should almost always be obeyed.

So, more general rules and their validity:

-Curfews are for the child's own good, plus they're the law in most places anyway, so, obey them.

-Any command related to self-improvement should be followed. "Do your homework" is not up for debate!

-Logically, parents can regulate useage of anything they buy for the child.

-Feel free to question their religious or political values. Those are to be determined by your own choices, not genetics.

-Unless they are being blatantly unreasonable, parents should be obeyed so long as you live within their house. If they're doing it right, they'll be giving you an incentive to focus on amassing enough money to leave. They may even regulate your love life a bit. Don't like it? Move.

--Chores do not count as unreasonable, unless the child is say, working and going to school, in which case, any sane parent will not load them down with those as well. The child IS pulling their weight.

 

[aelf]

There is no good rule. The domestic is the site of power struggles. Aside from the most fundamental questions of well-being, parents do not have objective or neutral perspectives, and upbringing necessarily includes the imposition of parental worldviews and the subsequent acquiescence to, acceptance or rejection of them by the children.

Also, parental authority derived from material ownership is perverse. Parents need not have had their children. Compelling their children on ultimately the basis of that choice they made is incredibly self-serving and narcissistic.

 

[GhostWriter16]

It can be hard to objectively rate a parent's performance, but good parents should almost always be obeyed.

I agree.

-Curfews are for the child's own good, plus they're the law in most places anyway, so, obey them.

Agreed (More because the parent said it than because the law did TBH)

-Any command related to self-improvement should be followed. "Do your homework" is not up for debate!

I would feel it a bit odd if a parent is telling a teen to do their homework, isn't failure punishment in itself? Especially if you have to go to summer school.

That said, I'd be doing my homework anyway.

-Logically, parents can regulate useage of anything they buy for the child.

Yes.

-Feel free to question their religious or political values. Those are to be determined by your own choices, not genetics.

Of course, within reasonable perimeters, saying you disagree with your parents is fine, insulting them isn't.

Also, when it comes to religion, I don't have an issue with "Come to our church." Now, if they really wanted to follow another religion (Like, say the family is Christian but one of the kids decides to be Muslim) than its a different can of worms, but most of the time its more "I don't give a crap" and I don't see telling the kid to go to church as all THAT horrific of a command, or really all that unfair, I mean, its not like they can force you to believe it.

-Unless they are being blatantly unreasonable, parents should be obeyed so long as you live within their house. If they're doing it right, they'll be giving you an incentive to focus on amassing enough money to leave. They may even regulate your love life a bit. Don't like it? Move.

I don't NECESSARILY agree, but if the reason the kid is hanging around is because he wants to be a lazy bum and never do anything, I agree. If the kid is paying a share of the rent and/or in college, its a different can of worms.

I guess it depends on the parent though. A lot of parents don't really have a problem with their kids staying around for awhile, while I imagine some do.

-Chores do not count as unreasonable,

I agree, depending on what chores, and how many. For what chores, I think expecting a kid to keep his room the way the parent wants it is a bit unreasonable. Not to the point where I'd rebel against it, but I'm still kinda against it. Their room is their space. Now, you could make the argument that "They pay for it" and I'd agree so far as you say that the kid should obey if told to clean his room, but unless the parent genuinely can't walk in if they need too, IMO the parent should let the kid keep his room how he wants.

And how many, I have a mom who was made to do... everything. She was working on chores practically all day. Or her sister, who was once made to do dishes at 1AM after finishing college AND her job (The latter case you kind of already addressed, but still.) So the number of chores CAN be unreasonable. Kids deserve some time to do what they want to do. But chores aren't inherently wrong, in fact, I'd say NOT having chores shows something wrong generally.

 

[Cynovolans]

What the? When parents tell their kids something, the kids either do it or talk about it or cry about it. (I'm talking about normal parents, with abusive ones they should run and scream for help)

Something about your post really makes me think your treating parents like the mafia.

 

[Mango Elephant]

If it's reasonable, then I'll listen and you should too. When it's not, then I won't do it. Examples -

My mom doesn't want me to stay on the computer after 10 because she thinks I'll look at porn. I don't listen, as soon as she's off to bed I hop right back on.

I look at porn usually several times a day, that's reasonable to me and I don't see why I shouldn't, even though my Mom doesn't want me to.

My mom wants to me to mow the lawn, weed the garden, clean my room, and other stuff and I do it of course.

My mom wants me to get good grades, and I do.

My mom used to want me to wait until I'm married until I have sex, and I never thought of obeying that.

My mom doesn't want me to do drugs or drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes, I've done all three and even though I probably shouldn't drink or smoke cigarettes I still do it because it's fun.

My mom doesn't want me to act on my gay urges until I'm at least 18 so I don't regret anything, hell yeah I'm obeying that one, right? My father, on the other hand, doesn't care.

My mom wants me to act all dignified and proper around people, holding the doors open and saying 'Yes Ma'am' and 'No, Sir' and I'll do that.

 

[GhostWriter16]

What the? When parents tell their kids something, the kids either do it or talk about it or cry about it. (I'm talking about normal parents, with abusive ones they should run and scream for help)

Something about your post really makes me think your treating parents like the mafia.

No, I'm not. Actually, someone else sort of inspired me to make this thread...

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Dom3000 is literally a child.

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[SS-18 ICBM]

I think it would be easier for me to say when they shouldn't be obeyed. Aside from abusive commands, directives regarding the child's own personal choices (e.g. career choice, political views, etc) should be ignored.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Dom3000 is literally a child.

Ummm... If there was something legitimate to be gained from this comment, please explain.

I'm 16 BTW.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I would feel it a bit odd if a parent is telling a teen to do their homework, isn't failure punishment in itself? Especially if you have to go to summer school.

You assume all kids care about school. This is false. Some shoot only for Ds, because that way they still pass yet can be lazy.

Of course, within reasonable perimeters, saying you disagree with your parents is fine, insulting them isn't.

Insulting people in general is just unneeded. The parent status isn't relevant at all.

Why insult someone when they've done nothing to you?

Now, if they're harassing you or personally offending you, I can understand. But by default, you should respect people, parents or non.

Also, when it comes to religion, I don't have an issue with "Come to our church." Now, if they really wanted to follow another religion (Like, say the family is Christian but one of the kids decides to be Muslim) than its a different can of worms, but most of the time its more "I don't give a crap" and I don't see telling the kid to go to church as all THAT horrific of a command, or really all that unfair, I mean, its not like they can force you to believe it.

My mother's friend would make us go to Church, but she didn't make us participate; she gave us drawing pads.

Really, it would be nice if more parents would just let their child choose to participate. Constant drilling of the faith into their heads might cause resentment and rebellion anyway.

Of course, I'm not strict on dogma or belief's requirement for salvation, so logically, I've never seen a point in making children go to church. Other than the natural fact you can't just leave them at home.

I agree, depending on what chores, and how many. For what chores, I think expecting a kid to keep his room the way the parent wants it is a bit unreasonable. Not to the point where I'd rebel against it, but I'm still kinda against it. Their room is their space. Now, you could make the argument that "They pay for it" and I'd agree so far as you say that the kid should obey if told to clean his room, but unless the parent genuinely can't walk in if they need too, IMO the parent should let the kid keep his room how he wants.

Really, the only reason a parent should want a room cleaned is to prevent accumulation of pests + if it has a health hazard.

And how many, I have a mom who was made to do... everything. She was working on chores practically all day. Or her sister, who was once made to do dishes at 1AM after finishing college AND her job (The latter case you kind of already addressed, but still.) So the number of chores CAN be unreasonable.

Just dishes isn't so bad. Though if there's a non-working parent, I consider them to be responsible for the bulk of domestic work. The children take up a task here or there, but their primary focus should be on studying and school. As my mother states, As are how we pay rent.

But chores aren't inherently wrong, in fact, I'd say NOT having chores shows something wrong generally.

We never had many chores, though in recent years our mother has made us do small things such as clean the table or wash/put away the dishes. Really, it's volunteer work. The emphasis in our house has always been on education.

I suppose it's because she doesn't want us to struggle like she and my father did - an 18-year old mother and a drop out husband.

 

[jtb1127]

As long as the command is fair. A fair command in my opinion is one that is either for the child's safety or something along the lines of "chores". Yes, that bad word. But the parents did give birth to the kid and provide for him and feed him so the least he can do is some chores every once in a while. For those who would argue, "Well, the parents have to take care of the child, its the law" or what ever: I completely disagree. There is nothing legally preventing the parent from being mean or not giving the child luxuries. The parent could have just put him up for adoption or got an abortion. Many parents want the kid, but many don't. I think the child owes the parents everyday of his life. Basically, "Thanks for not hitting or sexually abusing me my whole life. And thanks for the dinners and tv." Unreasonable commands are ones that involve pain being inflicted upon the child or put him in any other form of harm. Any thing that would embarrass the kid is definitely not appropriate. Embarrassment can be ok, but nothing like, telling family friends what they saw the kid doing in the bathroom. Other commands that may be disobeyed:

-telling the kid to go on an extremely scary roller coaster
-having the kid do chores when he is overworked and is in a situation similar to the OP
-controlling the child social life in a ridiculous way, like, "no boyfriends until you're 18"
-making the kid eat gross things
-making the kid take classes or go to a school they do not want to go to

The kid is responsible to obey reasonable commands until he moves out. So long as the kid continues to free load of of their parents, they are subject to the parents demands. The amount of demands should be significantly reduced as the kid goes into adulthood.

 

[Archbob]

Obey no matter what, or DIE

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[Zelig]

When you're living in their house.

 

[Tani Coyote]

controlling the child social life in a ridiculous way, like, "no boyfriends until you're 18"

How is this unreasonable? You want to make sure neither has children before they are ready.

Overall, it makes sense to control a child's love life. I'd amend it to "until you're financially stable and of legal age." That way, no ill side effects from accidental children.

making the kid take classes or go to a school they do not want to go to

Most kids don't want to go to school in their youth, I'd imagine. They don't understand how important it is, so quite frankly, their opinion on the matter should be disregarded.

 

[The_Tyrant]

The magic number is 16. Before that age children should obey all commands.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You assume all kids care about school. This is false. Some shoot only for Ds, because that way they still pass yet can be lazy.

True.

I also know someone who doesn't do homework and still gets A's

Also, "Shooting for D's" will still hurt you later in life. I think it depends on the age. If an 11 year old says, "I'm not doing homework" I'd make him. If a 16 year old said that, I'd let reality teach him when he ends up in summer school or not getting a scholarship.

Insulting people in general is just unneeded. The parent status isn't relevant at all.

Why insult someone when they've done nothing to you?

Now, if they're harassing you or personally offending you, I can understand. But by default, you should respect people, parents or non.

True, but I do think parents do deserve a bit of respect when you talk to them. For instance, I think my mom absolutely does NOT HAVE IT in political debate (Luckily, she DOESN'T like to discuss so its easy not to do) but since she's my mom, I try to respect her, even if I totally disagree.

My mother's friend would make us go to Church, but she didn't make us participate; she gave us drawing pads.

Really, it would be nice if more parents would just let their child choose to participate. Constant drilling of the faith into their heads might cause resentment and rebellion anyway.

True.

That said, it depends on WHY the kid doesn't want to go to church too. "I believe in a different faith" is a better reason than "I'm lazy and feel like sleeping."

Really, the only reason a parent should want a room cleaned is to prevent accumulation of pests + if it has a health hazard.

True, but I'm thinking more of a sort-of messy room than a totally clogged room.

Just dishes isn't so bad. Though if there's a non-working parent, I consider them to be responsible for the bulk of domestic work. The children take up a task here or there, but their primary focus should be on studying and school. As my mother states, As are how we pay rent.

Dishes alone isn't too bad. Dishes when the kid is getting two hours of sleep a night already because they're busy with school and work is unreasonable though.

We never had many chores, though in recent years our mother has made us do small things such as clean the table or wash/put away the dishes. Really, it's volunteer work. The emphasis in our house has always been on education.

We don't have a ton either, and usually at inconveineint times, which is more what's annoying about it, but I still owe it to them.

As long as the command is fair. A fair command in my opinion is one that is either for the child's safety or something along the lines of "chores". Yes, that bad word. But the parents did give birth to the kid and provide for him and feed him so the least he can do is some chores every once in a while. For those who would argue, "Well, the parents have to take care of the child, its the law" or what ever: I completely disagree. There is nothing legally preventing the parent from being mean or not giving the child luxuries. The parent could have just put him up for adoption or got an abortion. Many parents want the kid, but many don't. I think the child owes the parents everyday of his life. Basically, "Thanks for not hitting or sexually abusing me my whole life. And thanks for the dinners and tv." Unreasonable commands are ones that involve pain being inflicted upon the child or put him in any other form of harm.

I think you go too far with the "Since I allow you to exist, you owe me everything" but I do think that there is a delicate balance. Yes, you have to take care of your kid, its the law, but also kids have to obey their parents, and if they don't, they can get punished. BOTH are expected. Not sexually abusing the kid is expected, he doesn't owe you chores since you don't do that. If you do that, you should be ready to face the dang firing squad. On the other hand, chores are expected for being a part of the family. Your parents give you things, you should have to contribute as well.

-telling the kid to go on an extremely scary roller coaster
-having the kid do chores when he is overworked and is in a situation similar to the OP
-controlling the child social life in a ridiculous way, like, "no boyfriends until you're 18"
-making the kid eat gross things
-making the kid take classes or go to a school they do not want to go to

With gross being fairly defined (And not merely pickiness) I agree with #4 and I also agree with #1, and #2. #5 depends on the details, and #3 I don't consider totally ridiculous, but more because of how I was raised than anything. I'm 16, have never dated, and still consider MYSELF too young.

That said, for me, no boyfriends EVER is a fair rule

The kid is responsible to obey reasonable commands until he moves out. So long as the kid continues to free load of of their parents, they are subject to the parents demands. The amount of demands should be significantly reduced as the kid goes into adulthood.

Agreed.

Obey no matter what, or DIE

How is this unreasonable? You want to make sure neither has children before they are ready.

He said "Having a boyfriend/girlfriend" not "Having sex with a BF or GF."

You can still disagree (I kind-of did) but you should understand what he's saying...

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Children have the responsibility to follow all directions from parents (and any elder in the community) that can be defended logically.

Parents (and any elder in the community) have the responsibility to be able to convey, logically, why they are giving orders they give.

Respect is a two-lane road.

 

[Tani Coyote]

The magic number is 16. Before that age children should obey all commands.

That actually makes sense since by that age you're trusted to engage in sexual activity responsibly/not horribly mangle someone with a car.

I also know someone who doesn't do homework and still gets A's

Either he has a photographic memory(allowing him to do well on exams), or the course structure / teacher is horrid.

True, but I do think parents do deserve a bit of respect when you talk to them. For instance, I think my mom absolutely does NOT HAVE IT in political debate (Luckily, she DOESN'T like to discuss so its easy not to do) but since she's my mom, I try to respect her, even if I totally disagree.

It is possible to completely annihilate someone on the field of political combat and yet be respectful about it. We just don't see that often because people tend to be beholden to anger when they debate politics. (It always made dinner interesting when my liberal generation and my conservative elders went at it)

I can give the due respect to my mother or father while completely destroying them.

That said, it depends on WHY the kid doesn't want to go to church too. "I believe in a different faith" is a better reason than "I'm lazy and feel like sleeping."

Well if they believe in the faith and laziness isn't excused, then logically it can't be used as one anyway.

Though I'd wait until my kids were older before taking them to any church I went to. That way their belief is 100% their choice and not my doing.

Dishes alone isn't too bad. Dishes when the kid is getting two hours of sleep a night already because they're busy with school and work is unreasonable though.

Well in that case, yes, it is a bit much. Were your mother and sister raised by a single parent or was the domestic parent just busy with something else?

While a chore here or there isn't an issue, I do consider house work to primarily be the domain of whichever parent stays at home.

We don't have a ton either, and usually at inconveineint times, which is more what's annoying about it, but I still owe it to them.

My parents always waived chores of any sort if there was homework to be done. Suddenly, school had appeal.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I generally do what my parents tell me to, just out of politeness, but when it involves things like entertainment I don't if I don't feel like it.