Which is Worse?

[History_Buff]

??
You try getting to bathrooms after traveling public transit stations that have kept their bathrooms locked since early September of 2001,...

I forget about how insane the States are about that one still. Seriously, you guys really need to get over that.

to walk through a dense city at midnight to get in 20 minute lines.

This is par for the course. If you aren't peeing on the streets you're definitely not out in town on a late night.

1. Why are you still bar-hopping at midnight? Find a good bar and camp it, CoD style.
2. You can't hold it in for 20 minutes?
3. I take it based on your last there aren't a lot of public bathrooms, but are there no divey bars nearby without lines? Up here it's usually only dance clubs that have lines like that.

 

[LucyDuke]

Good job by the community, close all the bathrooms so everyone can pee on the street instead.

 

[Hygro]

Nope. How in earth did you get that from any of my posts?

Because that's the difference of education schemes you just proposed. You never even addressed the real substance of why this kind of comprehensive (and effective) education exists, nor did you any argument for why it's better to have the kind of education you think is "right".

So we're left with this: the end result of your preference in how school should be done, in comparison to the end result of how my school does it.*




*At least in the departments that don't lead to higher suicide rates and inter-student competition and cheating. Looking at you, biology

 

[Yeekim]

@ the spin-off discussion.
Anyway - when I was saying "peeing in the corner" I actually meant indoors.
Hopefully that is not yet considered par for the course for some 9.11. related reason.

EDIT: You really closed off public bathrooms in transit centers after 2001? And you still keep them closed?

 

[Quackers]

So you think education is to demonstrate a student's ability to test well in a vacuum against the professors assigned material and not about educating the student to their academic fullest potential.

Nope. How in earth did you get that from any of my posts?

Because that's the difference of education schemes you just proposed. You never even addressed the real substance of why this kind of comprehensive (and effective) education exists, nor did you any argument for why it's better to have the kind of education you think is "right".

So we're left with this: the end result of your preference in how school should be done, in comparison to the end result of how my school does it.*




*At least in the departments that don't lead to higher suicide rates and inter-student competition and cheating. Looking at you, biology

What? you haven't explained yourself very well at all. Surely learning to your fullest potential is through going to lectures, studying hard, going to tutorials, reading around the subject. You seem to think that only by cheating through getting other people to tell you what to include in your essay is the only way to achieve "fullest academic potential". Crazy.

Obviously at some point you will need to prove to your professor that you have adequetely digested the material and can represent it in a logical manner in response to a question. Your argument against "testing in a vacumn" is really an argument against examinations. Should we ban exams? How do we tell whose the best student and whose the worse?

Dude, it seems like yourself and a lot of other people in this thread have been cheating for years and only now have you realised and your rushing to some non sequitur that i'm against students learning to their full potential. I think everybody engages in it, including me, at least i'm honest about it

 

[Yeekim]

What? you haven't explained yourself very well at all. Surely learning to your fullest potential is through going to lectures, studying hard, going to tutorials, reading around the subject. You seem to think that only by cheating through getting other people to tell you what to include in your essay is the only way to achieve "fullest academic potential". Crazy.

...Except that

going to lectures, studying hard, going to tutorials, reading around the subject

is also basically

getting other people to tell you what to include in your essay

 

[downtown]

??
You try getting to bathrooms after traveling public transit stations that have kept their bathrooms locked since early September of 2001, to walk through a dense city at midnight to get in 20 minute lines.

This is par for the course. If you aren't peeing on the streets you're definitely not out in town on a late night.

Yeah, even *I* have peed outside late at night!

 

[Mise]

In London there are usually these outdoor urinals for men that reek of piss and overflow regularly, but are nonetheless the most hygenic place to piss at night. I call them urination stations.

Spoiler urination station :

 

[Hygro]

What? you haven't explained yourself very well at all. Surely learning to your fullest potential is through going to lectures, studying hard, going to tutorials, reading around the subject. You seem to think that only by cheating through getting other people to tell you what to include in your essay is the only way to achieve "fullest academic potential". Crazy.

Obviously at some point you will need to prove to your professor that you have adequetely digested the material and can represent it in a logical manner in response to a question. Your argument against "testing in a vacumn" is really an argument against examinations. Should we ban exams? How do we tell whose the best student and whose the worse?

Dude, it seems like yourself and a lot of other people in this thread have been cheating for years and only now have you realised and your rushing to some non sequitur that i'm against students learning to their full potential. I think everybody engages in it, including me, at least i'm honest about it

Cool. You're accusing me of cheating. You're accusing me of cheating when the rules of the game as specified by the product of my superior school system (for which I am grateful) specifically allow for that. Specifically encourage that. When your professor says:

"These are the questions for the take home midterm: talk to your classmates for ideas, get someone to proofread your works"

and you do that

Then according you, it's cheating.

That's analogous to a professor saying to use a calculator for a physics test, and then calling a calculator cheating.

I'm not saying we should ban exams, although you're right to bring that point up. The difference here is that an exam, an in class essay, a take home midterm essay, a take home term paper, take home problem sets, etc, all have different rules for different reasons. That's why professors want you to work together for some assignments, and not others. And that's why they keep that desire consistent with the medium. Take home stuff: it's your work, but consult others. In class stuff, be quiet or you fail.


In my economics courses, we are encouraged to solve the problems and equations together, so long as our work is our own. It's a bit honor code, but they are saying even if you're the "dumb kid" and you're working with the "smart kid". Btw, in one class in which I didn't have the pre reqs for last semester, I often worked with a new friend who had all the re-reqs. He taught me more than I taught him, but it was mutually beneficial. My two professors wanted us to be doing that. They didn't assign problem sets to figure out who is better and who is worse. That's what the tests were for.


Does that clear things up?

 

[History_Buff]

Yeah, even *I* have peed outside late at night!

Oh I've done it too. I just don't know why it would be a semi-regular occurance.

 

[Traitorfish]

Shoplifting is theft, and that's just wrong.

How so?

 

[Hygro]

How so?

Oh bugger you've stepped a bit far with this one.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Shoplifting is theft, and that's just wrong.

How so?

Because... shoplifting is illegal? For the people who claim to follow the bible, one of the commandments specifically says "thou shalt not steal."

And as somebody who has been shoplifted from, I can tell you that yes, IT'S DAMN WELL WRONG! I really did not appreciate somebody stealing from me.

 

[Dachs]

Because... shoplifting is illegal? For the people who claim to follow the bible, one of the commandments specifically says "thou shalt not steal."

And as somebody who has been shoplifted from, I can tell you that yes, IT'S DAMN WELL WRONG! I really did not appreciate somebody stealing from me.

Predicted response: property is theft.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Predicted response: property is theft.

WTH? Shoplifting is theft. Theft is stealing. Property is what gets stolen. How is it NOT wrong to shoplift?

 

[Kraznaya]

WTH? Shoplifting is theft. Theft is stealing. Property is what gets stolen. How is it NOT wrong to shoplift?

Property belongs to everyone. The workers own the goods of the store as much as the shopowner; I own cats of Red Deer just as much as you do. Why do you have the right to take away what should belong to everyone?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Property belongs to everyone. The workers own the goods of the store as much as the shopowner; I own cats of Red Deer just as much as you do. Why do you have the right to take away what should belong to everyone?

Your entire post is ridiculous.

In my case, there was no shopowner or workers. I MADE the goods for sale, and until they were sold, they belonged to ME. I was selling them at a craft show, WITHOUT any "workers" or "staff". The person who committed the shoplifting had no right to take the items without paying for them.

As for owning the cats of Red Deer... in the eyes of the law, I own my cats. With that ownership comes the responsibility to care for them responsibly: to make sure they have proper food, water, shelter, and not permitted to run at large. My cats have a proper litter box, they have their own beds, toys, scratching posts, and they get lots of love. When they need veterinary care, I make sure they get it. If anyone were to take my cats without my permission, it would indeed be theft.

From the point of view of the cats, however, they own me. And I don't mind a bit if they think that.

 

[Hygro]

Laws and philosophy and morals are all different things. I can't imagine why something is inherently morally wrong

Private property is not inherently philosophically or morally superior. It's a pretty decent system (cue Churchill and democracy analogy). That shoplifting is theft is something most of accept not just legally but morally and philosophically (like I), nevertheless it's important to understand that there's no inherent reason for it to be so.

This has been discussed extensively in other threads on this forum, and much more in depth.

 

[Mise]

Are you saying you're a moral anti-realist???

 

[Traitorfish]

Because... shoplifting is illegal? For the people who claim to follow the bible, one of the commandments specifically says "thou shalt not steal."

And as somebody who has been shoplifted from, I can tell you that yes, IT'S DAMN WELL WRONG! I really did not appreciate somebody stealing from me.

It might well be wrong to steal in a specific instance, but that doesn't imply that it theft in general is wrong. Look at taxation: objectively, it's a form of extortion, but for whatever reason the majority of people accept it as right and good. So is it really possible to say that "theft is just wrong"?