While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

[Crezth]

It doesn't matter if you don't want to teach it. Intruding in a conversation and essentially saying "your all dumm" is the equivalent of playground name-calling. It contributes nothing to a conversation besides the self-gratification of the name-caller.

is

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The intellectualism displayed in this thread is truly incredible. Thank god we have the internet.

 

[das]

We certainly had 21st century NESes with some level of pretense of realism or another. I'm sure most of them are laughable to those who have more of a grasp on modern economics, technology and so on, though.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I'd think there's a difference between unpunctuated and uncapitalized statements such as Masada's comment that North King refers to, and sarcasm like your second quote there Crezth. Still neither of them are particularly useful, if polite and respectful discussion is something that we are aiming to achieve.

 

[Grandkhan]

I have an extremely unrelated question, that will hopefully move discussion elsewhere: has there ever been a realistic real-world NES? I'm only asking out of curiosity from lurking in various historical / real-world NES. I feel like I would participate in a real-world NES in which the opening posts are not nations signing vague "trade agreements" and suddenly creating defensive pacts. I'm not trying to be judgmental or anything, and I know there's a place for those simplistic kinds of NES, but it turns me off personally from participating in them.

I do mean realistic, historical NES, but moreso, I mean a NES that begins in 2012 (or whatever year it was started in) and largely obeys the laws of physics. I'm not asking this because of my own NESing interests, but more out of curiosity.

I think one of the issues with running a realistic 2012 NES is that not only the mod but also the players would have to have a really good nuance of how modern economics and geopolitics works. This may or may not be available.

NESers tend to have pretty good knowledge of history, and use that to inform how they do diplomacy (that and video games, at least.) and economic policy in their nations. Thing is, how diplomacy works these days is a very different to how it worked one hundred or even fifty years ago, and the geopolitical face of the world is pretty different too - Great Power politics, for example, aren't exactly relevant. But NESers are used to playing with Great Power politics or just aligning into two or three blocs. There's a good reason for that - NESers tend not to worry about their populations like actual leaders do, and countries aren't as huge on aligning into two blocs stuck in a cold war and haven't since 1989 because thats a fast route to nuclear war and nobody wants that. But NESers tend not to care, so they do that and other kind of unrealistic things.

TL;DR NESers understand history as it happened and kind of operate like that, because they don't have to deal with the concerns that actual modern leaders have to deal with on a daily basis. As such a realistic 2012 NES wouldn't go very far since NESers are gamey warmongering b*******s and haven't been conditioned to worry about their populations.

Re: economics and realism in NESes, I was planning to make economic conditions a very big thing in my Cold War NES - for example, as soon as Persia (who's national oil company at the time controlled most of the Middle East's oil) went to war I was going to have major EP decreases in every industrial country as the cost of their oil went up due to the war and the Persian oil monopoly, causing some really bad inflationary pressure, similar to the Oil Crisis in 1973.

Frankly I was planning on doing that whether Persia got in a war or not, since they had a pretty big monopoly on Middle Eastern oil, and thats going to be bad for prices in the West. I have noticed that stuff like that is sometimes missing from NESes. Its kind of an important deal, especially if your NES is set in the 20th century.

 

[Angst]

Seriously, Symphony, just shut up. You're one of the most disgusting people in this community.

Hey now. That's not fair at all.

You seem to be working on the assumption that anyone particularly noticed or cared about Masada's remarks before you interjected to criticize him for them. Let me ask: was anyone hurt or offended by his remarks? Did anyone feel belittled by them?

I wasn't particularly offended, but it was basically a post jumping in to say x or y was dumb while not really adding to it. That's why I made my own "lowercase nonsrs reply", I got Masada wasn't particularly serious. I didn't want to point it out further, but now you ask: No, I was not offended. Yes, I was annoyed. It was condescending while not attempting to give us a hand.

1. For years people have acted like a little bit of attitude is an incredibly divisive force in this community that, at any moment, could tear it asunder like a piece of paper.
2. This attitude in so far as it exists has been and continues to be mild by the standards of both the internet and of humanity at large.
3. This attitude is practiced by the very same people who constantly warn of its foul influence with the same passion and verve as seen in the people they rail against.
4. The moralizing's getting really old.

What do I hope to gain? "If you live in a greenhouse, don't throw stones at glass houses," or perhaps "Pot to kettle: you're black." It is not a big deal, if you act like it is one you're probably a hypocrite, and as this conversation has shown, it doesn't really go anywhere. Leading by example on the last issue seemed to be the best way to drive the point home.

I don't like the behavior that has sometimes been promoted in here. It often makes me feel unwelcome if dense enough. That's not healthy for the community I think.

That said, honestly, I do not think Masada's comment was symptomatic of this behavior. It was, to me, a debate problem, and not a community problem. Not this time.

Wait, did I just drag myself into this, again!? Nooooo

 

[North King]

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Please observe the pages preceding the two comments in question. The contexts are quite different.

 

[Crezth]

Yes, yes, yes, you were "right" and Masada was "wrong" because "reasons."

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, hopefully most of us who chose to get ourselves involved in the conversation have said their peace, so you're probably not dragging yourself in lj.

EDIT: Crezth, NK, cut it out. >:|

 

[Angst]

I'd actually propose that Iggy would be our forum's mother watching over her fowl while Birdjaguar is out and about leaving her crying on the couch watching reality shows and drinking alcohol until she gets so drunk she hits crezth but then she says sorry and crezth just doesn't understand in his age and most of her children get beat up in the rough neighbourhood when she intakes the needle into her arm, dachs tries stopping her when showing up, all his brothers are crying and/or unkempt, she dies in a hospital bed while Birdjaguar is out humping, and then das

They're both birds. Why not?

 

[Oruc]

Nope!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

@lj- That post started off coherent. Then it got... I don't even know.

 

[Grandkhan]

I'd actually propose that Iggy would be our forum's mother watching over her fowl while Birdjaguar is out and about leaving her crying on the couch watching reality shows and drinking alcohol until she gets so drunk she hits crezth but then she says sorry and crezth just doesn't understand in his age and most of her children get beat up in the rough neighbourhood when she intakes the needle into her arm, dachs tries stopping her when showing up, all his brothers are crying and/or unkempt, she dies in a hospital bed while Birdjaguar is out humping, and then das

They're both birds. Why not?

Wow dude... you had one messed up childhood there buddy.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

And 4:20 is still an hour away in Denmark, making his post even less comprehensible.

 

[Azale]

A 2012 NES with no nukes!

 

[das]

No, that's pretty fair, really.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Wow. This all escalated into some srsbsns.

I also understand both sides, and think that everyone is right.

 

[Azale]

I like that WWW can be a repository of srs bzNES and random inanities. I mean, just because it's awkward and a little melodramatic doesn't mean it's not important for people to argue about or get off their chest.

 

[TheLizardKing]

I strongly agree with all associated parties. Everyone is as right, as everyone else!

I'm learning conflict resolution at work.

 

[erez87]

There were wargames on a modern world map. But No, a real NES in the modern world would be practically impossible to run. The amount of detail into each and every country, and city, and PERSON would be impossible.
There are just no such games at all.

 

[TheLizardKing]

And don't forget about the strong sense of nationalism some NESers feel when playing their respective countries.

"Wai u no gief argentina nuklear wepons?"

I do also think most NESers would get bored quickly, without being able to just up and invade whoever they want.