White Flight Redux: Self Segregation out of Irrational Fear.

[caketastydelish]

A whole lot of them do, all the time. As FDR said, "I welcome their hatred."

They probably also welcome your hatred.

"There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time." -Malcolm X

 

[Traitorfish]

Are we seriously comparing Malcolm X to the Republic of Kekistan?

 

[Hehehe]

The problem is that poor people and people of color in segregated schools don't ever get the same education and life opportunities as people in integrated schools get.

So wait, do white people have an obligation to provide all of these things to others? Or do they simply have an obligation not to interfere as the people of diversity build these things for themselves?

There are practical benefits to Chinese people living in Chinatown, namely, access to Chinese-language facilities, to Chinese cultural and religious institutions, and to specialty business. Do you imagine that similar motivations drive white flight?

There are practical benefits for white people living in whitopias, namely that everybody speaks the same language*, access to good schools and institutions, and low crime rates. I imagine that these kind of motivations drive white flight.

*Assuming there are little foreign white immigrants who don't speak the language

 

[Akka]

There are practical benefits to Chinese people living in Chinatown, namely, access to Chinese-language facilities, to Chinese cultural and religious institutions, and to specialty business. Do you imagine that similar motivations drive white flight?

The same root cause : wanting to be around people you feel more related to. I don't see how removing the practical considerations change in any way the core psychological/sociological reason.
Also, half of the "practical benefits" you list for Chinese are, in fact, precisely about being with "people you feel more related to", beyond the strictly utilitarian aspect.

A whole lot of them do, all the time. As FDR said, "I welcome their hatred."

Convenient way to never have to question one's belief or other's opinions or reasoning : just picture yourself as the messianic archetype whose others only oppose because they are hateful and hate-worthy.

Intellectual laziness, always here to rescue one from dangerous activities like critical thinking !

 

[Cutlass]

So wait, do white people have an obligation to provide all of these things to others? Or do they simply have an obligation not to interfere as the people of diversity build these things for themselves?

They have an obligation to not take it away from others. Which is what they are doing now.

 

[Hehehe]

They have an obligation to not take it away from others. Which is what they are doing now.

And this is wrong, because white people have an obligation to provide certain services to people of diversity? Did I understand this correctly? And by moving out they neglect that obligation?

 

[Akka]

So, if I understood the point, white people take away opportunity from others simply by moving around ?

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, of course they do realistically. Why is my ilk mad about their dying towns? Same reasons, largely. The value of the home I live in fell by ~60% in the last 9 years. It might rebound but I wouldn't count on it. And I'm under 2 hours by car and tollway from the 3rd largest city in the country.

 

[Zelig]

I wonder how much statistical relevance there is after controlling for income/wealth.

 

[Akka]

Well, of course they do realistically.

Oh, I'm not debating the effects, I'm wondering if Cutlass is actually saying that we should blame (and perhaps punish) the "white" for moving.

Because, well, if we're blaming people for reducing the opportunity of a place through their movement, shouldn't we also blame the non-white moving in, then ?

 

[metalhead]

The point of the OP isn't that people are "moving," it's that they're figuring out ways to basically "segregate-in-place," the most obvious method for doing so being the creation of exclusive public and charter school catchments that allow people in diverse neighborhoods and suburbs to nevertheless ensure their kids don't have to go to school with the poor minority children.

Often times the worst offenders are otherwise "liberal" white elites in urban areas. Case in point is West Philadelphia - about 10 years ago or so the University of Pennsylvania partnered with the Philly school district to commit additional funding and programs to a public K-8 school near the college campus. Naturally, home values and rents in the school's catchment area skyrocketed, driving out the previous, poorer tenants and homeowners, making room for yuppies and Penn professors to live near campus and send their kids to a public school that de facto excluded almost all the children of working class and poor people of color that live nearby.

They in essence created a new opportunity for neighborhood kids that systematically excluded kids of low socio-economic and racial status, and displaced people in the process. How messed up is that? The kids of Penn professors are going to be fine regardless of where they go to school, but they get opportunities created and handed to them by public institutions.

 

[Farm Boy]

Moving residence is the old tool(still in use where there is room), but you can still colloquially apply "moving" in this sense. As the population condenses, physically, and more shopping and stuff is done online, the moving around to segregate will by necessity be a different tool than spreading out. But the impulse is mostly the same. Especially if you consider how competitive on education we expect the job market(status/wealth/purpose/etc) to be. There aint no horse cavalry to shovel behind anymore.

 

[metalhead]

It's a shame the car-toilet never caught on.

 

[Cutlass]

And this is wrong, because white people have an obligation to provide certain services to people of diversity? Did I understand this correctly? And by moving out they neglect that obligation?

By segregating, and by voting themselves subsidies to do it, and white flight is extremely heavily subsidized, they may make themselves and their kids relatively better off. But they are doing so by imposing costs, and taking away opportunities, from others. These people are not doing this on their own dime. And the costs that they are imposing on others far exceeds the benefits that they are getting for themselves.

The whole of the country is a poorer and weaker and less free place because of this. And instead of being subsidized, they should be taxed to pay for the harm they are causing.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Again, I am impressed by Cutlass. Well said.

 

[Lexicus]

And instead of being subsidized, they should be taxed to pay for the harm they are causing.

They should have PoC children bused to their schools too.

 

[Traitorfish]

There are practical benefits for white people living in whitopias, namely that everybody speaks the same language*, access to good schools and institutions, and low crime rates.

I mean, this just overtly racist. You're not even trying to disguise it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I mean, this just overtly racist. You're not even trying to disguise it.

Not that trying to disguise it would have actually accomplished anything but making it annoying as well as racist.

 

[Naskra]

I mean, this just overtly racist.

Is it false, or just racist?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Is it false, or just racist?

It's absolutely true...if I live under overtly racist policies that benefit my race I am benefited thereby, pretty much by definition. I personally find that thinking of such situations as desirable is grotesque.