Who is the most nationalistic group on the Forums?

[jeps]

EU. by far.

 

[JohnRM]

That Vietnamese kid...(picked one randomly due to a lack of radioactive monkey option)

 

[QuoVadisNation]

I voted Poland because of the Poles' constant and strident appeal to have Poland added on as an official civ on these forums. Though, I suppose those bbc articles about Poland being bull-headed and nationalist don't help either.

 

[Peng Qi]

No. Just check drugs agency reports for 90-x and 00-x. Just check USA press on this subject, for example:

Actually, yes. Afghanistan has always been the leading producer of opium in the world. Just because it's up from when the Taliban was in control in no way alters that fact. It's simply not some new thing that happened as soon as the Americans got there. Even while the opium fields were being consistently burned, they were still the top producers.

Currently, huge fields of marble-flowers could be easily detected even from space.

Evidence? Got pictures?

I see only three possibilities:
1. USA army and so called democratic Afghan government do not control the country.
2. USA army/Afghan government control the country, but local officers and clerks are corrupted, and so narcoindustry is possible.
3. USA army/Afghan government control the country, but narcoindustry is attractive from political standpoint (for example, this is the only option to employ former talibans; maybe plantations are controlled by Afghan government itself).

4. Priorities have been placed on rebuilding infrastructure and industry and not fighting drugs.

Which one of these options makes current Afghan government better than the Taliban regime was?

Even if we ignore the perfectly rational and probably true "4" that I just added, the fact that the following line isn't tacked on to any of those options is what makes the current Afghan government better than the Taliban regime was: "all the while suppressing women and minorities, murdering Christian missionaries, and performing a few honor killings."

What about me, I am pretty sure that narcotraffic is much worse than terrorism, because heroin takes human lives per year much greater number than terrorists do. From this point of view, "government reforms" in Afghan makes the overall situation worse than it was before.

The key difference is that all of the people that die of heroin overdosing deserve it, whereas almost none of the people who die in a terror attack deserve it.

Also let's wait and see what will happen with the country after USA army leaves it. It's quite possible that current government will be erazed as well as it happened with procommunist government 20 years ago after USSR left the country.

Sure, it could. Or it might not.

I recommend you following "Manderlay" and "Dogville" Lars von Trier famous films -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogville
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manderlay
especially "Manderlay" that answers very well why some of USA practices - like democratic elections - do not provide good results in societies which are not ready for them.

Nah, I don't get my information from propaganda films. I prefer history books and, you know, facts.

 

[Leonel]

Poland?!?

Are we going to stand for that Americposters?! USA! USA!

 

[cybrxkhan]

That Vietnamese kid...(picked one randomly due to a lack of radioactive monkey option)

woot! .

 

[bhsup]

Poland?!?

Are we going to stand for that Americposters?! USA! USA!

I think if we do a comparison by popular culture in each country and count the number of patriotic songs that become hits, America wins hands down. No worries.

Oh, justice will be served and the battle will rage. This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage, and you'll be sorry that you messed with the US of A, cuz we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way!
- Toby Keith, Courtesy Of The Red, White, And Blue

 

[alex sword]

Peng Qi:

If you like facts, see this official report:
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/press_release_2007_08_27.html

In 2007, Afghanistan cultivated 193,000 hectares of opium poppies, an
increase of 17% over last year. The amount of Afghan land used for opium is now
larger than the corresponding total for coca cultivation in Latin America (Colombia,
Peru and Bolivia combined).
Favourable weather conditions produced opium yields (42.5 kg per hectare)
higher than last year (37.0 kg/ha). As a result, in 2007 Afghanistan produced an
extraordinary 8,200 tons of opium (34% more than in 2006), becoming practically the
exclusive supplier of the world’s deadliest drug (93% of the global opiates market).
Leaving aside 19th century China, that had a population at that time 15 times larger
than today’s Afghanistan, no other country in the world has ever produced narcotics
on such a deadly scale.

If you think that Mr.Bush sets such a priority *INTENTIONALLY* (i.e. he is sponsor of this new form of jihad) and you think that *SICK* people *DESERVE* their death of heroin overdosing, I think we do not have any questions to be discussed. I wish your own daugther or son won't provide you with any reasons to be sorry.

And don't forget - Mr.Bush decision touches not only USA, but all the planet because this extra harvest of opium will be exported all around the world. It's 100% irreponsibly to make such a decision without UN approval.

Good luck.

P.S. This graph (from that official report) shows how much opium was produced in preceding years:

 

[Peng Qi]

If you think that Mr.Bush sets such a priority *INTENTIONALLY* (i.e. he is sponsor of this new form of jihad) and you think that *SICK* people *DESERVE* their death of heroin overdosing, I think we do not have any questions to be discussed. I wish your own daugther or son won't provide you any reasons to be sorry.

If my son or daughter is stupid enough to hook him or herself on heroin and dies because of it, then good riddance. That's some monumental levels of stupid right there to get hooked on one of the most deadly drugs in the world. And how is setting a priority of industrialization and building infrastructure "sponsoring a new form of jihad?"

And don't forget - Mr.Bush decision touches not only USA, but all the planet because this extra harvest of opium will be exported all around the world. It's 100% irreponsible to make such a decision without UN approval.

Honestly, the UN can bite me. It has repeatedly shown itself to be interested in increasing the power of the corrupt and the tyrannical and attempting to cut down the United States at every turn. Why we're still a member is mystifying to me. Once again, anyone who chooses to kill themselves with heroin deserves their fate. I see no problem placing the buildup of legitimate businesses in Afghanistan ahead of the tearing down of illegitimate ones. Better to have illegitimate business during the transition phases if it keeps their economy afloat at the expense of idiots who use heroin.

P.S. This graph (from that official report) shows how much opium was produced in preceding years:

And, once again, if you compare that chart with similar charts from other countries, you will find that Afghanistan has always been the largest producer of opium in the entire world, even during the Taliban regime.

 

[Fifty]

We fiftychatters are pretty jingoistic.

While we have among our ranks people from all over the world, we all consider ourselves a member of the spammy collective.

 

[cybrxkhan]

If my son or daughter is stupid enough to hook him or herself on heroin and dies because of it, then good riddance. That's some monumental levels of stupid right there to get hooked on one of the most deadly drugs in the world.

though i myself don't really care much about your guy's debate, i am simply shocked at the harshness of those statements right there. do you have any humanity for the people? do you even have a child? wouldn't you feel dead if your child died?

you should know, a lot of people who fall into drugs, sex, gambling, and all those "sins" have nothing else. sometimes they have no choice. they're not "stupid" in that sense; they're just unfortunate to be born in a world much more unfortunate than us. i think is the #1 problem with Americans - they take things for granted - i am just saddened by the extreme cynicism and lack of compassion you show for the people suffering. they are humans too; if they made a mistake, its only human - its just they chose the wrong mistake.

 

[alex sword]

And how is setting a priority of industrialization and building infrastructure "sponsoring a new form of jihad?"

This is jihad because heroin kills people.

And, once again, if you compare that chart with similar charts from other countries, you will find that Afghanistan has always been the largest producer of opium in the entire world, even during the Taliban regime.

I wonder is it your assumption or what? If fact, by which sources this fact could be proven? If you open full version of UNODC report (http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/AFG07_ExSum_web.pdf), page 12, which shows global opium poppy cultivation in 1990-2007 - I attached this picture for your convenience - you see Afghan is the best producer starting from 2002 year, not before. In 2001, when antiopium Taliban company had been started it was almost zero but even in 90-x Afghan was not #1. He became #1 as soon as USA army appears, and since then it looks like nobody is able to control the country.

USA fired former Afghan management, but failed to hire another one. This is a failed project, but USA officials still afraid to admit this fact. Ok, let's wait. For USSR it took about ten years. For USA, it has already taken 5 years. Hopefully, next President will cancel this project.

Better to have illegitimate business during the transition phases if it keeps their economy afloat at the expense of idiots who use heroin.

I wonder in which direction this transition is. If year ago "only" 12.6% of total Afghna population was involved into narcoindustry, this year - 14.3%, opium part of GDP jumped from 11% in 2006 to 13% in 2007. Are you 100% that all this corresponds to USA plans and intentions as you said above? Are you 100% sureUSA controls the situation at all and this opium GDP increase is a part of some strategic plan? I would really like to understand what the plan is... If we extrapolate the current trend the whole Afghan economy will be based on "idiots who use heroin". Good and well-managed economy for brand new democracy.

I still recommend to take a look what "Manderlay" Lars von Trier film is (7.6 rating at IMDB which is quite good enough especially taking into account that this is not blockbaster arthouse). This is not propaganda film, no. Lars von Trier is a great producder, he is not propagandist. For some reason, I believe, if Mr.Bush had seen this film in 2001, he would have planned very different strategy for Al-Qaeda, perhaps basing not on military invasion but on establishing some relationsship with Taliban. Maybe, they are far away from idealistic standards, but at least they could control the country.

 

[Peng Qi]

though i myself don't really care much about your guy's debate, i am simply shocked at the harshness of those statements right there. do you have any humanity for the people? do you even have a child? wouldn't you feel dead if your child died?

No. People are responsible for their own decisions. If someone makes a stupid decision, it is entirely their fault. There's no sense getting depressed over people shooting themselves in the foot, because there's very little you can do about it. I would do everything I could to prevent my child from becoming a drug user, but once they chose to ignore my lessons I would no longer be able to sympathize with them.

you should know, a lot of people who fall into drugs, sex, gambling, and all those "sins" have nothing else. sometimes they have no choice. they're not "stupid" in that sense; they're just unfortunate to be born in a world much more unfortunate than us. i think is the #1 problem with Americans - they take things for granted - i am just saddened by the extreme cynicism and lack of compassion you show for the people suffering. they are humans too; if they made a mistake, its only human - its just they chose the wrong mistake.

Just because someone is suffering doesn't mean I owe them compassion. I am first just, then compassionate. It isn't fair for me to waste time and energy fussing over someone who is hurting themselves when I can apply myself more productively protecting and caring for those who are being hurt by things they have no control over. It's simply a matter of priorities. Who needs the help more? A heroin addict or a woman living in an oppressive nation state? A criminal or a man whose home was destroyed by a natural disaster? I choose not to waste my time on people who are undeserving because I have a limited amount of time in this world and I much prefer to spend it on people who are legitimately trying their hardest but being prevented from succeeding due to external factors.

And alex, I did not know that Myanmar produced that much opium, so I retract my argument that Afghanistan has always been the largest opium producer and change it to "Afghanistan has been the largest opium producer per capita since 1999, well before the United States invaded, with the only exception being 2001."

 

[Arlborn]

If my son or daughter is stupid enough to hook him or herself on heroin and dies because of it, then good riddance. That's some monumental levels of stupid right there to get hooked on one of the most deadly drugs in the world.

Way to go man!
Wanna a cookie?


And as a completely off-topic comment, do you guys know how many teenagers on drugs who suicides/dies/get messed up just because they parents don't help them?
I would say a lot! Anyone?

 

[Winner]

Umm, how many real Poles are here?

 

[Peng Qi]

And as a completely off-topic comment, do you guys know how many teenagers on drugs who suicides/dies/get messed up just because they parents don't help them?

Perhaps you could point out the part of my comment where I said I wouldn't help them if they asked me to, because I can't seem to find it.

 

[Arlborn]

Perhaps you could point out the part of my comment where I said I wouldn't help them if they asked me to, because I can't seem to find it.

"I would do everything I could to prevent my child from becoming a drug user, but once they chose to ignore my lessons I would no longer be able to sympathize with them."

So I got this and the other things you said about it in a wrong way, OK. But oh, if you don't give me that impression!

 

[silver 2039]

I notice that nationalists generally are either Americans or from some small and patethic country that got screwed over by history and their bitter about it.

I'm not sure how to classify aneeshm though.....

 

[alex sword]

Problem with heroin addicts (opposite to cocaine by the way) is that even if you think that their problems are their problems this is society problem, due to a nature of their sickness. When a person starts, he or she perhaps is more or less a stable member of society. Maybe, students or workers or etc. Just weak morally people. But before long you will have totally asocial person (heroin corrupts mind and body with great speed), who may break up your car or home, because they will need money and every day. These guys provide a great contribution to street offense in any country. The heroin takes not only lives of addicted but also lives of their victims. And you did not answer my questions:

I wonder in which direction this transition is. If year ago "only" 12.6% of total Afghna population was involved into narcoindustry, this year - 14.3%, opium part of GDP jumped from 11% in 2006 to 13% in 2007. Are you 100% that all this corresponds to USA plans and intentions as you said above? Are you 100% sureUSA controls the situation at all and this opium GDP increase is a part of some strategic plan? I would really like to understand what the plan is... If we extrapolate the current trend the whole Afghan economy will be based on "idiots who use heroin".

 

[Winner]

I notice that nationalists generally are either Americans or from some small and patethic country that got screwed over by history and their bitter about it.

India got screwed over many times, so I guess it's also pathetic, right?