Who should own the means of violence?

[Timsup2nothin]

We have open carry in Kansas... the first time I saw some young guy at Walmart with a side arm gave me pause. But then upon further reflection I realized if some nut started shooting the place up, I'd rather be near the guy with the gun on his hip.

If some nut was gonna start shooting the place up his first move should be to shoot at the guy with the gun on his hip. Being near him might not be your best choice.

 

[Synobun]

We have open carry in Kansas... the first time I saw some young guy at Walmart with a side arm gave me pause. But then upon further reflection I realized if some nut started shooting the place up, I'd rather be near the guy with the gun on his hip.

Smart move. You'll die faster that way. A nihilist's best case scenario.

 

[Hygro]

When he drops you can loot his gun and take out the attacker.

 

[Synobun]

When he drops you can loot his gun and take out the attacker.

The Russians did it right. Carry bullets and take the gun from a fallen comrade.

I knew this American-Russian collusion would lead to something good.

 

[Broken_Erika]

If the guy already fired a shot, will you still get full XP for killing the attacker?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

We have open carry in Kansas... the first time I saw some young guy at Walmart with a side arm gave me pause. But then upon further reflection I realized if some nut started shooting the place up, I'd rather be near the guy with the gun on his hip.

My takeaway the first time I ran into an openly armed shopper in a rural Wal Mart was:

This guy is way more likely to shoot someone on accident right now than the chances I'll ever encounter an active shooter situation. Freaking dangerous and stupid.

 

[Akka]

We have open carry in Kansas... the first time I saw some young guy at Walmart with a side arm gave me pause. But then upon further reflection I realized if some nut started shooting the place up, I'd rather be near the guy with the gun on his hip.

I'd rather be in a place where the chances of having an armed nut are closer to 0, so I don't have to worry about having an armed nut start shooting to begin with.

 

[Akka]

1) Everyone owns the means of violence. This seems good from an equality perspective. The issue is that the capability for violence is at an all time high that if everyone gets an assault rifle, a tank, a missile silo, etc, then all it takes is a couple of crazies to end the world.

2) Only some own the means of violence. If the group that owns the means is well trained and has oversight this is a relatively good option. The issue is that when one group gets the power, they like to keep the power for themselves and keep everyone else down. It's a human nature thing and human nature is a hard habit to kick.

3) Nobody owns the means of violence. This eliminates the potential destructive capabilities and brings everyone to an equal level which sounds nice. However convincing everyone to get rid of their weapons is unrealistic because again, there are currently groups with the power and convincing them to give up their power isn't going to happen.

3) is just childish dream, because even if you manage to convince everyone to give up their weapons, it just means that violence will belong to the first group of people who decides to gang together and punch others. Which is why 2) came into being, and is the only reasonable (read : both practicable and controlable) way of doing it.

 

[Berzerker]

If some nut was gonna start shooting the place up his first move should be to shoot at the guy with the gun on his hip. Being near him might not be your best choice.

Some guy intent on shooting up a Walmart wont be wandering around looking for everyone with a gun, he'll probably enter the store and start shooting at the check out lines where more targets are available rather than wandering the aisles with an ar15.

Smart move. You'll die faster that way. A nihilist's best case scenario.

Faster than being defenseless?

My takeaway the first time I ran into an openly armed shopper in a rural Wal Mart was:

This guy is way more likely to shoot someone on accident right now than the chances I'll ever encounter an active shooter situation. Freaking dangerous and stupid.

The death toll would be higher if a shooter met no resistance. Should be easy to compare accidental deaths to murders in stores and other gathering places. I'll bet money the latter is the greater threat. We have a mass shootings thread, not an accidental deaths thread.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm not entirely sure the answer can be anything other than the state, by definition. That is, is the question really, 'who should constitute the state'?

 

[EgonSpengler]

I'm not entirely sure the answer can be anything other than the state, by definition. That is, is the question really, 'who should constitute the state'?

Right, that's my confound too. We see clearly, not just here in the United States, that putting the use of violence in the hands of authorized agents of the state pretty reliably results in a lot of misuses of violence. Then that leads to a kind of "trickle down" effect that leads to abuses of power large and small. Put a badge next to a gun, and on a good day, you get an inflated sense of entitlement and self-worth. Let's give a bunch of adolescents rifles and tell them a story about making the world a better place and then act surprised when a bunch of civilians get killed.

 

[Synobun]

Faster than being defenseless?

At a gun range, you avoid being shot by standing outside the gun's field of view at a healthy distance, not by standing next to the target it's aiming at.

 

[Broken_Erika]

...... Let's give a bunch of adolescents rifles and tell them a story about making the world a better place and then act surprised when a bunch of civilians get killed.

The problem is obvious; They should have given them machine guns and automatic grenade launchers.

 

[Akka]

Right, that's my confound too. We see clearly, not just here in the United States, that putting the use of violence in the hands of authorized agents of the state pretty reliably results in a lot of misuses of violence.

Power corrupts, so there is always a measure of abuse from those who have power.
That being said, sorry, but where in the West is there anything even close to US level of violence in day to day police operations ?

 

[Farm Boy]

Let's give a bunch of adolescents rifles and tell them a story about making the world a better place and then act surprised when a bunch of civilians get killed.

High school sporting clay leagues are doing really well, presently. Granted, those are shotguns, but still.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Some guy intent on shooting up a Walmart wont be wandering around looking for everyone with a gun, he'll probably enter the store and start shooting at the check out lines where more targets are available rather than wandering the aisles with an ar15.

Two possible outcomes:

Your hero will draw the attention of the nut, leading to a spray of bullets in his (and your) general direction.

Your hero will keep his gun carefully hidden on his hip, meaning that being near him makes no difference at all.

So, the best you can hope for is that being near him makes no difference at all. I figure it's better to just not be near him.

 

[Berzerker]

At a gun range, you avoid being shot by standing outside the gun's field of view at a healthy distance, not by standing next to the target it's aiming at.

But we're all targets... Its better if one is shooting back than being defenseless, that should give us unarmed targets a bit more time to react.

Two possible outcomes:

Your hero will draw the attention of the nut, leading to a spray of bullets in his (and your) general direction.

Your hero will keep his gun carefully hidden on his hip, meaning that being near him makes no difference at all.

So, the best you can hope for is that being near him makes no difference at all. I figure it's better to just not be near him.

The 3rd outcome is the shooter is taken down or runs. Ideally I'm no where near either of them, but if a shooter heads down our aisle I'd rather one of us be armed.

 

[Synobun]

But we're all targets... Its better if one is shooting back than being defenseless, that should give us unarmed targets a bit more time to react.

What reacting are you doing if you're located right where the focus of the shooter is? You are not Neo.

 

[Broken_Erika]

And yet another mass shooting

Between eight and 10 people have been killed in a shooting by a student at a Texas high school, say police.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44173954

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

[EgonSpengler]

I eagerly await the "thoughts & prayers" press releases from the spineless sacks of excrement that the NRA has appointed to represent us in Washington D.C.