Who wants to write a sonnet?

[Gori the Grey]

Well, let's launch into the other version, the one you have a hunch is right, i.e. the version where the comments are addressed to her. A sort of follow-up to the letter.

Could you start, though, by giving me, in your own words, whatever version of what I'm calling the core sentiment feels right to you? How you would phrase the next thing it is you want to communicate to her, given the present state of your (non-)exchange.

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. I'm going to have to think about this, though.

 

[Gori the Grey]

No hurry. There's going to come a time in this process that I'm going to have to call on you to be patient, or more precisely, persistent. (In sonnet writing, one discards a dozen lines for every one that one keeps.)

 

[Borachio]

Anyway, in the meantime, here's the letter (probably to everyone's amusement, but I don't care, we don't really know one another, and it may help), as best as I can remember, that I wrote to this woman, who from henceforward I shall refer to as Sarah. Principally because that's her name, and I can't keep on calling her "this woman".


Ahem... (I haven't started yet. It'll start following this. I was just clearing my throat, as it were.)

Ahem, as well as I can remember... (Still not started yet. I'll start NOW!)

<deleted for being outstandingly bad>

I think that's about it. More or less. Terse, ain't it? Pathetic? Cajoling? I really don't know how it comes across.

My name's not really Borachio, btw. But you might have got confused by my real name.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Ok, Borachio, that's gotta be the worst love letter ever written. But thanks for being willing to share it, because at least now I know the size of hole that this sonnet has to dig you out of.

I had originally resolved not to meddle with the content of your sonnet, but now I am going to exert some control over its content. (And I'm going to meddle in your life!) I can&#8217;t let you continue to present yourself this in this fashion. I&#8217;m not sure there is any backpedaling from this, but we&#8217;ll give it a try.

But the one thing this means is that we&#8217;re not going to regard the sonnet as a continuation of the (non-)exchange represented by your letter. It&#8217;s gotta be a fresh start altogether.

For starters, no putting her on the defensive. No &#8220;why won&#8217;t you go to dinner with me?&#8221; Not primarily because it&#8217;s pathetic--although it is--but because it&#8217;s pathetic edged with an aggressiveness that will elicit an absolute shut-down.

Sorry to be so blunt, man, but if you want any chance with this woman, you have to back away from this rhetorical mode. Non-euphemistic (cripple), self-deprecating (old cripple) geezer (old) is endearing on CFC, but not the way to go in courting. It's not a matter of getting out ahead of potential objections.

So, in your core sentiment, we're shifting from one of our ideas to another, from "since you ignored my letter, I've had to compose a sonnet" to "you may not be the sort who usually gets a sonnet, but you deserve one"

 

[Takhisis]

I've never been a poet but I'd like to follow this thread.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Just follow or participate?

You don't have to already regard yourself as a poet. You just have to want to write a sonnet.

What would you want yours to be about?

 

[warpus]

If someone sent me a love letter like that I'd be compelled to respond. But my name is not Sarah and I am not really very lovely.

If I had more time I would love to write a sonnet.. Maybe I'll wait until the first couple people post theirs and join in then? Is that sort of thing allowed? Maybe the process isn't as time consuming as I think.

 

[Takhisis]

Just follow or participate?

You don't have to already regard yourself as a poet. You just have to want to write a sonnet.

What would you want yours to be about?

Well, the answers are:
Follow, certainly. Maybe write. I'm used to prose but I'm not a verse man.

I might want to write a sonnet.

What can I write about? Anything at all?

 

[Gori the Grey]

@warpus: it is a little time consuming, but we're in no hurry; you can advance on yours as your schedule allows.

@tak: anything at all. And its the verse part where I'm making my contribution. That's precisely what I'm proposing to help people with.

 

[Borachio]

Ok, Borachio, that's gotta be the worst love letter ever written. But thanks for being willing to share it, because at least now I know the size of hole that this sonnet has to dig you out of.

Well! I did kind of know this. But what can I do? I had to do something. Anything's got to be better than nothing. (Maybe not, eh?)

And yeah. Dig me out of it. Immediately, if not sooner.

edit: I feel really dumb, now.

 

[Mise]

Quick question, I'm going to Mexico for 10 days and I'll have a fair amount of free time traveling on buses and planes and things. I figure this would be a really good time to write a sonnet. Can you outline in simple terms what steps I should follow please? That way I can do some homework on my trip and come back to school with something to work with!

 

[Gori the Grey]

@Mise, I've added to the OP a description of the whole process. If you can do it entirely on your own, more power too you, but I'm thinking that my guidance and response, stage-by-stage and line-by-line, might be valuable. If you've got internet connection during your trip, you don't have to try to do a bunch of the work on your own as homework, and then return to school. It's an online class. It's a MOOC! You can avail yourself of my help at each stage of the sequence that is involved in writing a sonnet.

@Borachio. The blood more stirs to rouse a lion than to start a hare.

Now the sonnet writing also involves the challenge of digging you out of the hole (very nearly a grave, I should think) that your letter put you into.

So let's return to your gist statement. I want us to go back to "Sonnet for a Woman who is Not the Sort to Receive One" conceit. Do you think she might also think of herself in those terms? (Likely, since almost no one receives sonnets these days, but please confirm.) Let's start working with the list of attributes that make you feel that way.

Forthright, self-assured, scornful, fascist (well, BNP tendencies), independent, past the age of romantic notions

Could you also generate me a list of the attributes you find appealing about Sarah (not excluding any of these, by the way, but including any others)?

Immediately, if not sooner

This will actually probably take a while. Are you committed to the long haul?

 

[Borachio]

Sure. I'm committed to the long haul. I first asked her out 18 months ago.

What do I find appealing about her, apart from fascist tendencies and being past the age of romantic notions (because assuredly I'm not)?


She's very fit. Has grey eyes which look at me directly. Blonde hair. (Though that really doesn't count). An incredible chuckle that she seems to use when uncertain of something, and blows me away. The way she bends double, openly laughing at me. A strange taste in daleks and Lady Gaga. How she places more value on animals than human beings.

The very fact she scorns me is appealing somehow. If she'd let me take her out 18 months ago, I'd likely have been "Well, meh. I don't think so". Well, maybe. Maybe not.

And certainly directness and independence appeal to me. Why wouldn't they?

My case is hopeless then, is it? I've dug my own grave? This doesn't bode well. Just how good are you at this?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Just how good are you at this?

We'll find out, won't we?

(By long haul, I mean long haul of writing a sonnet, by the way.)

Spoilered; really just for Borachio's eyes:

Spoiler :

Ok, here comes my meddling in your life. I only do this because it has a bearing on your sonnet. I have to be blunt again. You've written a letter that I think is likely to be extremely counter-productive to your getting a dinner with Sarah. In a few short lines you've done a number of things that I believe will be off-putting. You've put her on the defensive by asking her to, well, defend her decision not to have a dinner with you. (You think just "explain," but the repeated "why"s will make her feel cornered.) You've done her the disrespect of second-guessing her motivations, suggesting she doesn't know her own mind, "Is it because you're worried you'll have a good time?" (which, by the way, also undercuts the self-deprecating pose you try to strike elsewhere). You take self-deprecation to the level of full-on disincentive. And most problematic is your "I like you better than anyone I've ever met," which is massively unwarranted at the level of your acquaintance and may make her think you're emotionally volatile. When one feels defensive, disrespected and creeped out by someone with whom one presently doesn't have a relationship, the easiest thing is just to shut down entirely.

An invitation has to be, well, inviting. You have to imagine what you have to offer that might be appealing to her and present that.

This bears on your sonnet in three ways. One I've already said, and that is an approach that it rules out. You're not going to present the sonnet as an amped up follow-up to the letter. Two is tone. Earlier, I wanted to free you to adopt whatever tone felt authentic to you. Now I'm telling you you need a particular tone: self-confident, disengaged, take-it-for-what-it's-worth. It will also bear, down the road, on how you deliver your sonnet.

Ok, we still need a "gist" statement, a one-or-two-line encapsulation of what you want to say, that will form the skeleton of the sonnet. Again, it should have some logical complexity (which will come through in a transitional expression or two: if, however, therefore, moreover, consequently). Given the approach (of the two possibilities we once had) that we are now taking, it needs to be in the neighborhood of "I don't know whether anyone has ever given you a sonnet before or not, because even you might not think you're the typical recipient of one, but you deserve one." But you have to say it in your own words, because it has to be true to the situation and only you know all the relevant details that would make for an appropriate phrasing of such a sentiment.


@all others who might be interested in writing a sonnet: I don't think how personal this has gotten with B will be typical. I never went into this project thinking I'd be giving courtship advice (me!). So don't be scared off that in B's case it has taken this more personal turn.

 

[Borachio]

(By long haul, I mean long haul of writing a sonnet, by the way.)

Done by Christmas?

Spoilered, as reply to spoilered bit.

Spoiler :

Meddle away, as you please. My ego (or rather my sense of myself; the word "ego" brings some negative connotations) is sufficiently robust not to be too bothered by criticism. And you may well have something relevant to say, to me. Or for someone else. Or maybe someone will just find it all hilariously entertaining. I'm fine with any result.

Right.

Self-confident, disengaged, take it for what it's worth. I can do that, but it's likely to come off as uncaring, imo.

I'm an "engaged" kind of person. Things matter to me. Though I can stand back a bit, and observe them mattering to me, if that makes any sense.

Ok, we still need a "gist" statement, a one-or-two-line encapsulation of what you want to say, that will form the skeleton of the sonnet. Again, it should have some logical complexity (which will come through in a transitional expression or two: if, however, therefore, moreover, consequently). Given the approach (of the two possibilities we once had) that we are now taking, it needs to be in the neighborhood of "I don't know whether anyone has ever given you a sonnet before or not, because even you might not think you're the typical recipient of one, but you deserve one."

Seems really abstract to me. Well... I don't know. I'm still thinking about it. I can't seem to get a handle on saying exactly that in any other words than you've just used.

But you have to say it in your own words, because it has to be true to the situation and only you know all the relevant details that would make for an appropriate phrasing of such a sentiment.

Look, all I know is I really do like this person, and I really do know that I very likely do like her more than anyone I've met before. And I knew this almost immediately on first meeting her. A coup de foudre, if you like. Well, nearly. Probably very nearly.

I simply have very little to offer, though. Beyond the whole of myself. Which, one might think, would be enough. Or maybe not.

I get the feeling that we're not thinking along the same lines.

Anyway, I'm game for this. Let's see where it leads, shall we?

 

[Gori the Grey]

My ego (or rather my sense of myself; the word "ego" brings some negative connotations) is sufficiently robust not to be too bothered by criticism

I know this about you, Mr. Io. It's why I presumed to meddle.

Yes, by Christmas.

If my formulation seems overly abstract, make it your own by making it more concrete.

 

[Borachio]

Gah! I've got nothing.

Why does anyone deserve anything? I don't think we do.

If I ever succeed in writing a sonnet, and it looks increasingly likely that I won't because I'm not a creative literary person - my mind goes completely blank - it would be out of the superfluity of my human spirit (if I can presume to have one of those). We do things just because, not because we're forced to or because someone deserves that we do so.

I would like to write a sonnet (for the novelty of it) to bowl her over (I can't see that happening), as it were. But that's only because I like her extravagantly, and in the final analysis there's no reason for me to like her so. I simply do. Bewitched as I am by her fiendishly exotic nature. Though if you passed her in the street you probably wouldn't give her a second glance, tbh. I would, of course, but that's because she's my "ideal type". Or extremely close to it.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Then change the deserve part. I don't know if you have ever received a sonnet, but I'd sure like you to have one.

This part isn't creative. You just need to think what you might say to her that isn't (directly) all the gaga stuff.

Or we can do that just for the experience of the sonnet but then I won't encourage you to send it because it's too much in the vein of that letter. Lots of Renaissance sonnets are in the place you're in. You'd be writing right in the main tradition.

 

[Borachio]

Then I'd say exactly that:

I don't know if you have ever received a sonnet [99% certain you haven't], but I'd sure certainly like you to have one. [No idea why. Maybe something to do with this guy on an internet forum. And it's probably not at all the sort of thing you want, either.]

I couldn't conceivably put it better. And we're going to get nowhere if I try, I think.