Why are we here?

[Birdjaguar]

FL2, I find the question of "Why?" amazingly interesting, but unlike you (and many others) I seem happy knowing I will never know.

Without wanting to get OT, I think this is a common belief amongst many agnostics. I guess if you are not religous you have to just accept that you don't know many things, including "Why".

Growing up as an athiest I spent many nights as a teenager on acid wondering about these things, I guess you missed out on that. I can't say you missed much though, apart from realising that whatever the "real" answer all we can do is make up our own reasons for existing.

It is hard to go too far off topic here, given the nature of the question. I can understand a contentment with not having to answer the "why" question. Knowing you'll never know is not too far from having an answer to the question. In both cases the "looking for the answer" is no longer necesssary. The acceptance of "some reality" can be calming and a framework for putting the other parts of your life in order.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

There's an old joke about a preacher who is caught in a flood and when the sheriff comes by and tells him to evacuate the church the reacher refuses and says god will provide. The water rises higher and the preacher moves to roof. A rescue boat comes by and the preacher refuses to get in saying god will provide. Finally as the church begins to wash off its foundation a helicopter tries to get the preacher to leave. He refuses again. The church washes away and the preacher dies.
In heaven when brought before god the preacher asks why god didn't save him. And god says "I tried. I sent a sheriff, a boat and a helicopter."

We want clear cut, big ticket answers that reinforce our faith. I'm not sure why we haven't learned that those don't come very often and we mostly are left with only moments of clarity that can pass quickly.

To escape the flesh you need to become a mystic. To lose yourself in god and leave the world behind. Pretty tough to do. You'd have to give up civ and OT and all the good stuff.

If you are going to believe in a god who is active in the world, why wouldn't he be active through the every day stuff? If the world is important enough to have been created, it seems a little silly for god to show himself by acting outside the laws of the world he put such importance on. He might be right close by.

I fear I have given the wrong impression, despite significant effort not to.

This is not a crisis of faith, this is a crisis of existence. I have decided that the evidence present is sufficient for me to accept that the universe is an artifact, IE a creation, and that the Christian god Jehovah did the artificing. Big ticket miracles are irrelevant. I'm looking for a meaning to it all.

Even if everything in the Bible happens according to prophecy, and I have no reason to doubt that it will, since every prophecy made has happened at the appointed time so far, I still have no indication of why any of it happened.

I know how. I got buckets of how. I'm up to here in how.

Fresh out of why. That's what I'm looking to fix.

The thing that worries me is, that God might not know why either. To go through all of this, and all of what comes, and finally stand before Him, and ask Him why, and hear Him say 'I don't know, I was hoping one of you would figure it out and tell me.' is just too depressing to contemplate. That makes my why a subjective one (part of God's Whyputer), and me just a cog in the machine.

If the Creator has no purpose, what purpose can His creations have?

 

[PantheraTigris2]

"Why are we here?" To be tested. Measured. Proven. To be developed. And triumph. It's just that simple.

^That's my answer without and 'religious' wording (since it is such a sensitive subject for some around here), this is my full answer:

To love, obey, and glorify God, and fulfill His plan for us. That is the grand scheme of things.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Great. What's His plan for Him?

 

[PantheraTigris2]

The intention/plan 'is good' - just as it has always been. Of that, you can be assured. The grand scheme of things is likely far beyond any of our abilities to fully conceptualize/understand at this level of being, or even the next. But though faith, you will gain peace of mind and spirit - and know enough, to satisfy you. And of course, more will come later. But, we must learn to walk and run, before we can fly.




Philosopher PT2... has spoken.

 

[Immortal]

3) This is all a "real" version of the Truman Show, except I'm the only entity I know that is sentient and everything else (including CFC) is either a construct of my mind, or of someone else's. The answer to "Why?" is "Because I said so."

Oh man, sounds like one of my worst experiences with hallucinogenics.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

I believe people that may suspect the 'Truman Show' concept - are starved for attention. It's their fantasy - to imagine that kind of scenario - in order for the mind to escape the loneliness/lack of attention.

That, or drugs. But, you mess with drugs, heck anything can happen.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm looking for a meaning to it all.
I still have no indication of why any of it happened.
Fresh out of why. That's what I'm looking to fix.

Again, I say turn to the mystics. They spell it out clearly: To know god and to experience his existence. That is the why. It is through the world that we learn to know god. That is the purpose of creation.

 

[Ayatollah So]

The intention/plan 'is good' - just as it has always been. Of that, you can be assured. The grand scheme of things is likely far beyond any of our abilities to fully conceptualize/understand at this level of being, or even the next.

As long as we can understand some of the good involved, I think that would go a long way to satisfying FL2's "Why?" questions. So that raises the question, what makes the plan good?

Philosopher PT2... has spoken.

But without providing a direct answer to the central question

 

[~Corsair#01~]

It's pathetic to see people try to find reasons for their existence- MAKE YOUR OWN.

 

[sourboy]

It's kind of like the Neverending Story (no pun intended). We are here because we chose to be. We can't fathom that because we have amnesia or Alzheimers, but think of it like this - if you didn't want to be here, you would commit suicide. Sure, you can say by default you opt to stay, maybe with the only drive being to find out why - but then you waste what you asked for in the first place. You end up cycling around (reincarnating) until you learn to do what religion (your reference guide) tells you to do - live your life! Everything around us was created by us, indirectly or directly. Isn't it obvious? You can do anything. We can do anything. We are god, we are individuals.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I am very poorly suited to a life pursuing nihilistic hedonism. I would much rather die. Is there anyone out there who thinks they do know why?

It is a hard pill to swallow....the lack of reason.

Even though I am an atheist, I also long to discover a why.

Without a why, there is no moral code but the hedonistic, but that obviously isn't for everyone, so the best you can do is develop your own code that brings you comfort in your existence.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

The problem with all the atheists saying that man can make their own moral code, is that any code that man makes will differ slightly from man to man as it cannot be absolute, as it is not based on an absolute.

This means the moral code is relativistic, and a relativistic moral code might as well not exist at all.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

@FL2

If we speak of a general "why", shouldn't God alone be able to answer your question? What human can claim to have the knowledge of God?

 

[Stapel]

The problem with all the atheists saying that man can make their own moral code, is that any code that man makes will differ slightly from man to man as it cannot be absolute, as it is not based on an absolute.

This means the moral code is relativistic, and a relativistic moral code might as well not exist at all.

That is correct. Some of us are willing to accept that. Other can't.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

@FL2

If we speak of a general "why", shouldn't God alone be able to answer your question? What human can claim to have the knowledge of God?

Supposedly, any of them who read the Bible.

Stapel,
If a reletive moral code is worthless, then why have ethics and laws? To perpetuate a meaningless existence? Why bother? If it can't be defended logically without resorting to subjective posits, then anarchism, hedonism, and nihilism are the only objectively valid philosophies. Clearly, none of them are anything but self-serving, and if self-serving is the only logical course of action, then all of civilization is a mistake.

Somehow, I don't think that rings true...

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

That is correct. Some of us are willing to accept that. Other can't.

The problem for me is that I am atheistic, and at most agnostic. This means I cannot honestly accept a moral code in this state, but rather just play things by feel, and try not to step on others.

Sometimes it would seem like becoming a theist would be so much easier, as it would solve these problems, but since I can't believe in it, it would be hollow and dishonest.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Supposedly, any of them who read the Bible.
Clearly, none of them are anything but self-serving, and if self-serving is the only logical course of action, then all of civilization is a mistake.

Somehow, I don't think that rings true...

It isn't a mistake, because if there is no moral code there is no such thing as a mistake.

Civilization makes life as pleasant as possible in peoples' eyes, and pleasant has little to do with morality, but rather is just us trying to make life easy. None of it is about morality, it is all just about indulgance.

Someone that is atheistic cannot logically support absolute morality, and thus cannot support the moral virtue of laws or ethics. You are quite correct.

All human legal codes do, is help to perpetuate values deemed important by society. Whether it be economic, military, honourary, longevity (which still has a 100% mortality rate), or whatever goals a society has presented as its reason for existence. It has nothing to do with absolute morality.

Of course if there is a God, I am wrong, and I hope I am, but I feel that this very unlikely that I am wrong.

I hope you can find a why, and therefore a reason for everything else, cause I certainly do not have the capacity to do so. Perhaps none of us will until we die.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Whatever the answer, humans have a built in urge to understand and organize our world. We do establish norms and values, both as individuals and as societies. We will kill and die for those norms and values.

If it is a god-given seeking of Truth, then we're cool. If not, then genetics and evolution have favored those traits for a couple of million years and they have certainly blossomed in the last 5,000. Our Truth-seeking genetic heritage has even shown itself capable of successfully competing with our most primitive aggression and mating impulses. I am curious what our hard core TOE folks think underlies this streak of "god creation" in our evolutionary heritage.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Finding the truth makes us more intelligent. Intelligence helps us to survive. But please, this is NOT an evolution/creation thread. There are enough of those. This is about "why we/everything exists."