Why aren't you all Communists?

[Lexicus]

As a side comment to this, WWII itself kinda helped the Civil Rights Movement get started as well. The many acts of heroism on the battlefield performed by black soldiers did a lot to help break down the idea that black people were inferior to whites and the fact that they fought so valiantly meant that black people had "proved themselves". After that, it became harder and harder for racist politicians to continue to deny rights to the black population.

Yeah, I'd agree with this to an extent. This strikes me as a somewhat idealistic version of the truth, which as I see it is rather simpler: it's not the best idea to deny fundamental rights to people who have shown they can fight.

 

[warpus]

Just a friendly reminder that for the purposes of this thread the reader is to ignore any instance of any historical state which tried to implement communism, including states that were called communist by the inhabitants and were ruled by communist regimes.

 

[aelf]

#salty

 

[red_elk]

Was the WW2 really a major turning point in granting blacks equal rights though? I got an impression it was gradual process which lasted for decades.

 

[Lexicus]

Was the WW2 really a major turning point in granting blacks equal rights though? I got an impression it was gradual process which lasted for decades.

World War II was incredibly important to civil rights, certainly far more so than "communist ideology and the Soviet example." The war sucked white men into the armed forces at the same time as it created enormous demand for arms production, which in turn led to much greater opportunity for black people in the US to work at jobs that had previously been available only to whites.

http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/suic/Ref...me=bcps&jsid=af9825b7e9bd5e5164572bb7ebdbb7d4

World War II invigorated the civil rights movement, galvanizing blacks who during the Great Depression had developed a greater awareness of their potential political influence. During the 1930s many blacks had switched their political affiliation from the Republican Party, "the party of Lincoln" that had freed the slaves, to the Democratic Party, and in 1936 had voted for Franklin Delano Roosevelt to show support for his New Deal programs. The outbreak of war in Europe in 1939 stimulated American industry and the demand for labor. As was the case with World War I, African Americans moved to industrial cities for employment but confronted discrimination in hiring and wages. A. Philip Randolph, president of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters, informed Roosevelt that 100,000 blacks would march in Washington, D.C., to protest discrimination in defense industries. In June 1941, Roosevelt averted the protest by signing Executive Order 8802, outlawing prejudicial treatment of workers in defense industries and the federal government on the basis of race. Blacks also encountered opportunity along with racism in the armed forces. One million African American men and women served in the military, in segregated units. Blacks in the military and in civilian wartime jobs saw themselves as waging a "double victory" campaign to secure democracy abroad and for themselves in their own country. They emerged from the war with a renewed sense of the rights to equality and freedom in the land that claimed to represent these among the world's nations. During the war, membership in the NAACP swelled tenfold to 500,000.

Numerous factors energized the civil rights movement after World War II. In July 1948, President Harry Truman signed Executive Order 9980, barring racial discrimination in the civil service, and Executive Order 9981, mandating "equality of treatment and opportunity for all persons in the armed forces." The postwar economic boom improved job opportunities for blacks, and higher incomes resulted in rising college enrollments for African Americans and increasing donations to civil rights organizations such as the NAACP. The mass media, including fledgling television, publicized civil rights activism. Furthermore, television broadcasts displayed the material prosperity enjoyed by middle-class whites, feeding African Americans' desires for a better standard of living.

That link does a good job of summarizing the various elements at play here.

 

[Traitorfish]

As a side comment to this, WWII itself kinda helped the Civil Rights Movement get started as well. The many acts of heroism on the battlefield performed by black soldiers did a lot to help break down the idea that black people were inferior to whites and the fact that they fought so valiantly meant that black people had "proved themselves". After that, it became harder and harder for racist politicians to continue to deny rights to the black population.

More immediately, it encouraged a change in self-perception among African-Americans. If they were good enough to fight die alongside white Americans, they were good enough to live and work alongside them.

 

[REDY]

I dont know much about black heroism in ww2. The black people proved to be good more in sports than in warfare imho.

 

[W|M]

Black heroism isn't very well known with regards to WW2 because it was always covered up and overshadowed.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Though 1 million served, most people who aren't history buffs think (incorrectly) the number to be lower since their stories aren't covered very much unless you specifically look for them. I don't know how much 'blacks serving alongside whites' happened in ww2 when most blacks served in segregated units.

Most have heard of the Tuskegee Airmen.

 

[AdrienIer]

It reminds me of WW1 where white Americans wouldn't fight alongside black Americans, so despite the fact that US generals wanted their troops to fight in all-American divisions they decided to send their black soldiers to fight with the French. French soldiers were used to fighting alongside black men (from our colonies) so they didn't mind. From what I've read it gave France a good reputation among african americans for decades.

 

[Farm Boy]

The armed forces were still segregated, but there are enough anecdotes of guys getting infusions and realizing that all the blood had come from colored units serving in support roles. Stuff like that. Tends to leave an impression, I'd guess.

 

[warpus]

#salty

Just a friendly reminder for those not paying attention at home, you can't expect a random passerby to understand the strange nuances of this thread, even after reading the OP.

 

[Hygro]

Just a friendly reminder for those not paying attention at home, you can't expect a random passerby to understand the strange nuances of this thread, even after reading the OP.

From the guy who has me on ignore for missing nuance.

 

[red_elk]

From the guy who has me on ignore for missing nuance.

There is a joke in Russian, about nuances.
Not sure I can translate it here, because of wordplay and obscenity, but the idea is that nuances can be very important in some circumstances

 

[caketastydelish]

Communism is an evil and wicked philosophy which has lead to the deaths of millions of people. Communists use their ideology to justify violence. To justify destroying private property. To justify looting. To justify flipping cars and arson. To justify murder.

The European Union has decided to make Holocaust Denial illegal. This is good, but we should make supporting communism also illegal.

 

[cardgame]

And capitalism hasn't? Just because this is legal

doesn't mean it isn't looting

 

[caketastydelish]

No. Perhaps you should check your dictionary. Law abiding citizens do not loot.

Anyway, I do agree that the pharmaceutical industry and prescription drug costs have gotten out of hand. That doesn't even remotely make me a communist.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I dont know much about black heroism in ww2. The black people proved to be good more in sports than in warfare imho.

You are intentionally making your persona here some sort of caricature, right? You don't really seriously say things like this, do you?

 

[caketastydelish]

Yes definitely. In this case I actually agree with Tim. I hope this guy watches the movie Red Tails, among other things. Please educate yourself.

edit: In Vietnam the casualties were disproportionately African American. I could go on and on with more examples. These people are definitely not cowards who are afraid of danger.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I would not blame them if didnt have too much interest on fighting for a so racist country. The amazing thing is that they fighted for it instead of sabotaging it.