Why do you *not* accept evolution?

And if God always existed? I believe he's infinite, it's part of what makes him God. If that's true, then there's no need for a beginning, while there is a need for one for the physical universe that you and I are a part of.

And if the universe always existed? I believe the universe is infinite, especially in higher dimensions, despite that our observable universe may seem finite. If that's true, then there's no need for a beginning.

rest of reply

I'll leave it up to an educated biologist to try to explain evolution (or give a link) to this poster.
 
Despite the evidence, no no no no, the proof, of evolution(lab expieraments on what many call "macro evolution", the similarities between chromosomes of various animals especially specietically close ones, the fossil record and a whole list of other evidences and proofs, what is your reasoning for not accepting evolution? Please elaborate why.

You are asking why does Americans NOT accept the concept of evolution?
Or why do you (Earthlings) NOT accept the concept of evolution?

I'm European. I accept the concept of evolution and leave the Teocracy concept way back!
But I do know, Americans don't believe on this concept and go to the Religion version. (Than where did you put T-Rex & Dino-Inc.?)
 
And if the universe always existed? I believe the universe is infinite, especially in higher dimensions, despite that our observable universe may seem finite. If that's true, then there's no need for a beginning.
I'm certainly no physicist, but isn't there a limited amount of energy in the universe, which would put finite limits on the universe? (look at this to see what I mean).
 
And if God always existed? I believe he's infinite, it's part of what makes him God. If that's true, then there's no need for a beginning, while there is a need for one for the physical universe that you and I are a part of.
How come you can make this claim for God but not the Universe. Why does God get an 'allowed to exist for no reason' card when the Universe doesn't?
That doesn't mean much. People believed that the earth was flat for ages and used that as a basis for scientific research. History doesn't mean much other then the fact that it hasn't totally been disproven yet.
This is wrong i'm afraid. Educated people have been aware that the World was round since the Greek Philosophers figured it out - and even produced quite accurate measurements for the Earth's dimensions.
Sorry, but that isn't true. Forming amino acids in a controlled environment is nice, but it doesn't do any good when nothing happens. The experiment ended there. There was no life, just amino acids. that isn't forming life, nor does it demonstrate the possiblity of forming life.
It demonstrates an intitial step. Chances are the rest of the process is just waiting ty be demonstrated in a test tube near you soon.
No, it really isn't all that crazy. Where are your links between creatures? Sure you have fossils that are slightly different then what we see today, but there are no exactly (or even mostly) in the middle creature that demonstrates evolution. Remember microevolution is true, no one should debate that it all, it's a scientific fact. What I contest is macroevolution.
Look up transitional fossils. There's loads of them.
Another thing that I've seen raised against evolution is the idea of irreducible complexity. How do you evolve something that needs many complex parts to survive or work even partially? The idea of evolution is that only the best at every stage succeed, correct? What happens if you have something that doesn't work, but in a few million years, will work better then anything else?
This is indeed a valid refutation of Evolution. Which kinda kills off one of the other anti evolution arguments: that it isn't falsifiable. But I digress.

Trouble is there are no actual examples of Irreducibly Complexity around.
I'm certainly no physicist, but isn't there a limited amount of energy in the universe, which would put finite limits on the universe? (look at this to see what I mean).
So?

Let me get this straight. You are prepared to believe in an infinite God who exists just because he does. But not in a finite Universe that exists just because it does? Which is less likely, the existence of something Infinite or of something finite?
 
Saw this today:

IntelligentDesignCartoonSteveSack8-8-05.jpg
 
As you can see, the method of acquiring truth and knowledge on the right is better.

I'm a firm believer in theistic evolution but I see a flaw to the one on the left with the 'start' part in regards to evolution.


In creationism, 'start' is obviously God.


What is 'start' on the left side. For the 'start', something had to evolve from nothing or if you take it further back, the Universe had to start from nothing.


About some higher being creating God beforehand, that is actually irrelevent because it is God, not that being that created us. And if that being has chosen not to make himself known to us and so far has decided not to interfere in our lives with dreams and visions as "God" has. He has also not smitten us with his mighty wrath for not knowing him. If he does not care and is ok with us believing in "God", then he does not matter as much as "God" to our everyday lives.
 
About some higher being creating God beforehand, that is actually irrelevent because it is God, not that being that created us. And if that being has chosen not to make himself known to us and so far has decided not to interfere in our lives with dreams and visions as "God" has. He has also not smitten us with his mighty wrath for not knowing him. If he does not care and is ok with us believing in "God", then he does not matter as much as "God" to our everyday lives.
What created that which created God?
 
And if God always existed? I believe he's infinite, it's part of what makes him God. If that's true, then there's no need for a beginning, while there is a need for one for the physical universe that you and I are a part of.

The universe has been around for all time because time only has meaning inside the universe. If God requires no creator, the universe certainly does not.

That doesn't mean much. People believed that the earth was flat for ages and used that as a basis for scientific research.

What scientific research? Flat earth theory doesn't stand up to scientific method, evolution does.
 
Why anyone doesn't accept evolution is beyond me, even the Catholic church accepts it with caveats? So what the creationist are doing is a minority view. It has no reasoning, it has no science, and IMHO, it should be ignored.

And what created that? And what created that? And...

Who creates the creators? Why do we need to discuss it in science, it isn't about why but how.
 
I'm certainly no physicist, but isn't there a limited amount of energy in the universe, which would put finite limits on the universe? (look at this to see what I mean).

Certainly the limitations of the observable universe and dimension has no bearing on the existence of an infinite higher-order universe, does it? (i.e. your argument is similar to: since our solar system will die out eventually, that logically implies that the galaxy will also die out... or since human beings die, then that logically implies that the Earth will somehow die as well)

I'm a firm believer in theistic evolution but I see a flaw to the one on the left with the 'start' part in regards to evolution.


In creationism, 'start' is obviously God.

No, "Get an idea" is God.

What is 'start' on the left side. For the 'start', something had to evolve from nothing or if you take it further back, the Universe had to start from nothing.

Start on both sides is an observation of the universe. I see an apple falling from a tree. I get an idea: all things fall!
 
No, it really isn't all that crazy. Where are your links between creatures? Sure you have fossils that are slightly different then what we see today, but there are no exactly (or even mostly) in the middle creature that demonstrates evolution.

There is a good deal wrong with this statement. I think fundamentally you don't understand what the word 'species' means... it's just a bunch of organisms that kinda look alike... that's it. It is a human contrivance. In the real world, it means very little. The boundaries between species are not nice and clean like you want them to be.

It's a lot like the concept of time. There's nothing particularly special about age values. When are you considered a toddler, when are you a teenager, when are you an adult? Life is not like the Sims... there's no magic moment where you suddenly transform from one stage to the next; it's a gradual process. However, we use those terms so that we can communicate what kind of person we're talking about, in a general sense, and know that at the edges, it gets fuzzy.

If you saw a scrapbook of my life, and saw a photo at 10 years old, and a photo at 12, would you really try to argue that the two kids aren't the same person, despite a remarkable amount of similarity between the two?

Remember microevolution is true, no one should debate that it all, it's a scientific fact. What I contest is macroevolution.

It's the same thing. Think of it this way. You concede that species can change over time. What if one species changes one way, and another in a different direction. Eventually, you would have a divergence (think chimps and humans), yes? And if points in the present can diverge slightly in the future, does it not also follow that points currently close but separate (again, chimps and humans) could converge in the past?
 
Guys.....evolution and abiogenesis are two distinctly different things....
 
Guys.....evolution and abiogenesis are two distinctly different things....

Indeed. Abiogenesis is a conundrum: why DNA has right handed chemistry, and proteins left? Is a mystery that is somewhat open to question. Evolution on the other hand is extremely robust in terms of micro and macro evolution.

Here's an example:

In 1928 Alexander Fleming discovered by accident antibiotics. In 1940 they were in widespread use, in 1980 we started having a problem with multiple resistance strains. In 2007 some bacteria cannot survive without antibiotics, they have foregone polysacharrides as their food source. Evolution is pretty much unshakeable atm, abiogenesis, well it's a long time ago that life formed it's extremely difficult to figure out exactly why considering.
 
Microcelluar organism in controlled labratories should not be taken an absolute fact in supporting the claim of evolution in other species. I would love to have someone to persuade me of thinking this of not being a true criteria to base upon.
 
Microcelluar organism in controlled labratories should not be taken an absolute fact in supporting the claim of evolution in other species. I would love to have someone to persuade me of thinking this of not being a true criteria to base upon.

However, it is the best theory we have on the matter, and thus the most logical thing to believe.
 
Microcelluar organism in controlled labratories should not be taken an absolute fact in supporting the claim of evolution in other species. I would love to have someone to persuade me of thinking this of not being a true criteria to base upon.

Yeah fair enough but who's saying it is?

Straw man, that is nothing like an argument scientists use.
 
Yeah fair enough but who's saying it is?

Straw man, that is nothing like an argument scientists use.

Yes. Arguments that scientists include explaining why FTL travel is IMPOSSIBLE.
 
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