Why I am Opposed To Immigration

[Ajidica]

I'm largely opposed to immigration and accepting refugees letting Jews and those fleeing Nazis into the US, at this point in time, is that we need to focus our resources on helping Americans, not immigrants and refugees Jews and those fleeing Nazis when we have homeless Americans on the street (and worse that some of the homeless are US Armed Forces Veterans). It may be a harsh reality, but it's a tough choice when dealing with limited resources.

Fixed for you.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Refugees yes, economic migrants not so much. Most of the western countries now have their own problems, running up deficits etc.

I said "people", and not "refugees" for a reason.

 

[Zardnaar]

Isn't youth (18-late 20's) suicide rate and depression in NZ one of the highest in the first world? Something tells me what you listed above might be a key reason, especially since this is a populace that is filled with a lot of college-educated people who have seen good jobs go by the wayside.

Yes but can't blame that on immigration. If I had to guess easy access to drugs and booze combined with bullying at high school.

 

[GenMarshall]

How about you help both homeless people and immigrants. The US clearly doesn't lack the resources or infrastructure needed to do so

Helping legal immigrants, only if there's enough jobs to go around for everybody in the US. Illegals ship em back.

Fixed for you.

Please don't misconstrue my post.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Please don't misconstrue my post.

I mean, those literally were arguments made for why Jewish refugees from Europe shouldn't be taken in in the mid-late 1930s.

 

[Archbob]

There are actually a lot of open jobs. They all just happen to be in high-tech and healthcare. You just have to have the skills. Jobs like Coal mining aren't effected by immigrants, are going the way of the dinosaur, and aren't coming back. Immigrants aren't really a jobs issue in the US.

Anyways I'm against immigrants that speak different languages because when I challenge them to Mortal Kombat, they don't understand.

 

[Mouthwash]

Hey, you set the level of discourse. I was merely responding in kind.

If you want to actually discuss the merits of the question, I'm happy to do that. But "your position is naive kneejerk moralizing, as proven by my cynical kneejerk moralizing, and you are a dangerous garbage person for holding your position," isn't really doing that, y'know?

No, Owen, you set the level of discourse. Your entire argument boiled down to "I'm for total free immigration because not allowing people to live where they want would be mean." luiz was being far too charitable with his response.

Anyway, I don't value the opinions of people without skin in the game. How exactly will your life be affected by worldwide freedom of movement?

 

[Lexicus]

No, Owen, you set the level of discourse. Your entire argument boiled down to "I'm for total free movement because not allowing people to live where they want would be mean." luiz was being far too charitable with his response.

Exterminating entire groups of people is also something I think we shouldn't do because it's mean.

 

[metalhead]

I didn't read this thread, but it seems like a lot of what the OP complains about are not problems of immigrants per se, but problems with policy that isn't keeping up with the rising population with things like affordable housing in cities. We have that same problem here in the U.S., and believe me, it is not caused by immigrants.

 

[Lexicus]

I didn't read this thread, but it seems like a lot of what the OP complains about are not problems of immigrants per se, but problems with policy that isn't keeping up with the rising population with things like affordable housing in cities. We have that same problem here in the U.S., and believe me, it is not caused by immigrants.

I'd been reaching this conclusion as well. It sounds like many complaints stem from the lack of political will to do anything to properly accommodate immigrants the consequences of which are then just blamed on the immigrants, in time-honored and venerable fashion.

 

[W|M]

Helping legal immigrants, only if there's enough jobs to go around for everybody in the US. Illegals ship em back.

Calling someone illegal because they don't have arbitrary documentation is dehumanizing and implicitly endorsing the deaths of a lot of people. This is what happens when you have a ''ship em back'' mentality

 

[warpus]

I didn't read this thread, but it seems like a lot of what the OP complains about are not problems of immigrants per se, but problems with policy that isn't keeping up with the rising population with things like affordable housing in cities. We have that same problem here in the U.S., and believe me, it is not caused by immigrants.

Here in Canada, we've had a bit of a housing crisis in Vancouver for a number of years now. Locals are being priced out of their own city and it's harder and harder to buy each year. A big part of the problem doesn't seem to be immigrants, but rather foreign buyers, who are buying up properties for investment purposes, in many cases not even having anyone live there. The extent of the problem is hard to gauge because the provincial government hasn't really done much to determine how big of a problem it actually is, at least from what I've seen. However, due to public pressure, they've recently put in place some legislation to make it harder for foreign buyers to buy properties in the province. I think there's a higher tax and stiffer penalties for people who buy and don't move in. Even without all those foreign buyers though, Vancouver would still be fairly expensive to live in. So even if you got rid of all those foreign buyers and prevented any more from moving in, it would still be a problem.

The only problem with immigrants in Vancouver, from what I've read about anyway, is ethnic enclaves where signs in English aren't even put up. So you'll wander through a part of Vancouver, and you'll see business signs in a foreign language, and no English. I'm not sure where exactly the province and city are in addressing all this, but it's definitely a problem. Or at least used to be the last time I read about it.

If I were to point to a city that's having a problem with immigration here in Canada, I don't know, maybe Toronto? It's not really a problem with the people moving there, but rather the large amount. The city has been growing super fast and is expected to continue doing so. The public transit infrastructure is just not there to deal with all those people, even today. The world's busiest highway (401) runs through the city, and that often gets clogged up. With more and more people moving to the city, it will get even worse. The problem here is not immigrants per se, but all the people who are moving there. A lot of them just happen to be immigrants, it's the most popular destination for immigrants in Canada. I think something like half of the city wasn't born in Canada (but don't quote me on that, maybe the statistic is closer to "half the city are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants" I'm not really sure) Even if they weren't moving to the city en masse, the city population would rise anyway, and we'd end up with the same problem eventually anyway. The main problem is that the city sucks at infrastructure and public transit planning. The city is not in a good shape for that right now and it's completely not ready for the growth that's expected over the next 20 years.

Neither is the province. Public transit options between major cities are a joke, we are stuck in the mid 20th century as far as those sorts of links are concerned.

So yeah.. IMO it's a bit disingenuous to blame immigrants for all this. It's bad/no planning by the people who we've elected to run our provinces and cities. The immigrants are a part of the problem, but so are the rest of us.

 

[Zardnaar]

I mean, those literally were arguments made for why Jewish refugees from Europe shouldn't be taken in in the mid-late 1930s.

Legit refugees facing death let them in.

Here in Canada, we've had a bit of a housing crisis in Vancouver for a number of years now. Locals are being priced out of their own city and it's harder and harder to buy each year. A big part of the problem doesn't seem to be immigrants, but rather foreign buyers, who are buying up properties for investment purposes, in many cases not even having anyone live there. The extent of the problem is hard to gauge because the provincial government hasn't really done much to determine how big of a problem it actually is, at least from what I've seen. However, due to public pressure, they've recently put in place some legislation to make it harder for foreign buyers to buy properties in the province. I think there's a higher tax and stiffer penalties for people who buy and don't move in. Even without all those foreign buyers though, Vancouver would still be fairly expensive to live in. So even if you got rid of all those foreign buyers and prevented any more from moving in, it would still be a problem.

The only problem with immigrants in Vancouver, from what I've read about anyway, is ethnic enclaves where signs in English aren't even put up. So you'll wander through a part of Vancouver, and you'll see business signs in a foreign language, and no English. I'm not sure where exactly the province and city are in addressing all this, but it's definitely a problem. Or at least used to be the last time I read about it.

If I were to point to a city that's having a problem with immigration here in Canada, I don't know, maybe Toronto? It's not really a problem with the people moving there, but rather the large amount. The city has been growing super fast and is expected to continue doing so. The public transit infrastructure is just not there to deal with all those people, even today. The world's busiest highway (401) runs through the city, and that often gets clogged up. With more and more people moving to the city, it will get even worse. The problem here is not immigrants per se, but all the people who are moving there. A lot of them just happen to be immigrants, it's the most popular destination for immigrants in Canada. I think something like half of the city wasn't born in Canada (but don't quote me on that, maybe the statistic is closer to "half the city are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants" I'm not really sure) Even if they weren't moving to the city en masse, the city population would rise anyway, and we'd end up with the same problem eventually anyway. The main problem is that the city sucks at infrastructure and public transit planning. The city is not in a good shape for that right now and it's completely not ready for the growth that's expected over the next 20 years.

Neither is the province. Public transit options between major cities are a joke, we are stuck in the mid 20th century as far as those sorts of links are concerned.

So yeah.. IMO it's a bit disingenuous to blame immigrants for all this. It's bad/no planning by the people who we've elected to run our provinces and cities. The immigrants are a part of the problem, but so are the rest of us.

Same thing here sort of except we traditionally have managed to avoid ethinic enclaves but I think that might be starting to break down.

We have been an immigrant nation for years (that is fine) but even if they passed laws fereeing up more land we don;t have enough builders etc to actually build the houses and we have not recovered yet from 2 earthquakes. Auckland in particular has bad public transport andits has been growing to fast (because of immigration).

Our main highway got knocked out last year and is still closed, they are stll rebuilding Christchurch from 5 years ago.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Anyway, I don't value the opinions of people without skin in the game. How exactly will your life be affected by worldwide freedom of movement?

I live in California, dude. I have skin in the game.

 

[Mouthwash]

I live in California, dude. I have skin in the game.

You live in *Silicon Valley.* How many Somalis do you see on a daily basis?

 

[schlaufuchs]

You live in *Silicon Valley.* How many Somalis do you see on a daily basis?

In a minority-majority sanctuary city that is 33% Latino and 33% Asian, predominantly Vietnamese and Filipino. I went to school with undocumented immigrants. I've worked with undocumented immigrants. I've lived with undocumented immigrants and their children. I currently work at a job in which I have to speak and interact on an everyday basis with non-English speaking Latino families, a non-inconsiderate number of which contain undocumented immigrants. So to reiterate: I have skin in the game. My state is the poster child for the effects of a de facto open border. The negative externalities are negligible in comparison to the benefits.

 

[Mouthwash]

In a minority-majority sanctuary city that is 33% Latino and 33% Asian, predominantly Vietnamese and Filipino. I went to school with undocumented immigrants. I've worked with undocumented immigrants. I've lived with undocumented immigrants and their children. I currently work at a job in which I have to speak and interact on an everyday basis with non-English speaking Latino families, a non-inconsiderate number of which contain undocumented immigrants. So to reiterate: I have skin in the game. My state is the poster child for the effects of a de facto open border. The negative externalities are negligible in comparison to the benefits.

So to reiterate: you live in a university town, in one of the wealthiest regions in one of the wealthiest states in America, and most of your immigrants are east Asian. Yeah, I'm just not impressed.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

So to reiterate: you live in a university town, in one of the wealthiest regions in one of the wealthiest states in America, and most of your immigrants are east Asian. Yeah, I'm just not impressed.

Wow! Not only did you manage to imply Asians are racially superior to Latinos, but you implied that the economic situation of Asians in America is not actually very differential based on their country of origin and parental wealth. Amazing!

 

[Leonel]

Before you start building a wall around New Zealand, how about letting me and my girlfriend slip by? I'd love to become a New Zealander but if not, I could always try getting to Australia on a family visa.

 

[Zardnaar]

Before you start building a wall around New Zealand, how about letting me and my girlfriend slip by? I'd love to become a New Zealander but if not, I could always try getting to Australia on a family visa.

We have a moat, its called the Pacific Ocean. Lots of AMericans moving here it seems. Had Gumbo for the 1st time this week as a couple from Louisiana/Texas have opened a shop.