Why the West will always win

[shahreevar]

Culturally inferior, eh? What happened to the 4500 years of Chinese civilization? What happened to their inventing paper, the printing press, etc. before the West? Granted, Civ is a product of the West (which probably makes your argument that much stronger ) Hieroglyphs? Eastern import! Cuneiform? Same goes.

The fact is, West and East started on an even footing.
Then the East got way ahead, about around the invention of paper.
Around the invention of the printing press (in Europe, 400 years after the Chinese invented it), Europe started to catch up and get way ahead about the Industrial Revolution.
Now the East is slowly catching up.

See a pattern?

it's a circle. what goes up must come down. no empire on earth, no matter how powerful, has lasted forever. really "we are better that you" arguement only works if you are 6 years old, and comparing toys.

 

[Thangorodrim]

And here is an argument which I really must credit Alpine Trooper for helping me think of:
My Theory

 

[BasketCase]

@Shahreevar: From my observation, nations act almost EXACTLY like 6-year-old children comparing toys.

 

[shahreevar]

@Shahreevar: From my observation, nations act almost EXACTLY like 6-year-old children comparing toys.

no kidding!! that is so true sometimes. and unfortunately this sort of behaviour trickles down to the people, or is it the other way around??

 

[Odin2006]

The OP is a load of BS; it sounds like some Euro-centric, faintly racist "White Man's Burden" nonsene from 100 years ago qute franly. "The West" did not exist untill the Middle Ages, and only became dominant in technology and millitary in the 1600's, it was the decendant of Greaco-Roman Civlization, to consider Greeks and Romans westerners is like calling Gauls French. Also, no civilization will overshadow Western Civilization, the world is so connected by technology now that the civilizations of the modern world (Western, Islamic, Indian, and East Asian) will merge into a single global civilization eventually.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

As has been said before, it's a cycle. The west is overdependent on cheap labour and resources from other countries, eventually it will weaken and become totally controlled by the nations that hold the resources and industrial capacity (middle east and asia). Assuming that you don't think that this is happening already.

The west will fall into mediocrity, and power will shift to Asia. The middle east will sink out of international view once again when oil runs out.

Maybe we'll find an oil replacement, in which case Asia will still have an advantage (technology and manpower). Maybe we won't, in which case we'll burn less and less efficient fuels until we collapse back into a pre-industrial technology level. In which case the future will be totally unpredictable.

But a new power will rise, and fall to be replaced by another, and so on until we get off this rock or the sun burns out.

 

[Gelion]

Good stuff NK
Can I join your NES?

 

[JohnRM]

As has been said before, it's a cycle. The west is overdependent on cheap labour and resources from other countries, eventually it will weaken and become totally controlled by the nations that hold the resources and industrial capacity (middle east and asia). Assuming that you don't think that this is happening already.

The west will fall into mediocrity, and power will shift to Asia. The middle east will sink out of international view once again when oil runs out.

Maybe we'll find an oil replacement, in which case Asia will still have an advantage (technology and manpower). Maybe we won't, in which case we'll burn less and less efficient fuels until we collapse back into a pre-industrial technology level. In which case the future will be totally unpredictable.

But a new power will rise, and fall to be replaced by another, and so on until we get off this rock or the sun burns out.

That is a totally unrealistic point of view. The fact is that the only resource that is lacking in the western world, that matters, is petroleum. At this point, other resources such as aluminum, iron, and other metals are recyclable, plastics can be synthesized, and there is no shortage of woodlands or other rare-earth minerals. Sometime in the next twenty years, there is going to be a major shift away from petroleum-based energy toward another source, whether that is hydrogen, solar, some other type, or a combination (I have my money on a combination with solar playing a huge part).

China will continue to grow economically, but it has a very long way to go before its economy can compete with the western world. Yes, China has a huge GDP, but its per capita GDP is hardly better than most African nations, with unemployment levels that cannot even be calculated due to the astronomical numbers involved. China can continue its current growth rate for the next fifty years and it still won't catch up. Militarily, China is stuck in the 1980s, with its only clear edge being the number of warm bodies that it can field.

At this time, the products of China head to the West (primarily the USA & Germany), because nobody in that country can really afford what is being sold. If, as you say, China becomes an economic powerhouse, it will begin to consume more and more of its own products until it can no longer afford to export them.

 

[CurtSibling]

The OP is a load of BS; it sounds like some Euro-centric, faintly racist "White Man's Burden" nonsene from 100 years ago qute franly. "The West" did not exist untill the Middle Ages, and only became dominant in technology and millitary in the 1600's, it was the decendant of Greaco-Roman Civlization, to consider Greeks and Romans westerners is like calling Gauls French. Also, no civilization will overshadow Western Civilization, the world is so connected by technology now that the civilizations of the modern world (Western, Islamic, Indian, and East Asian) will merge into a single global civilization eventually.

And also Europe colonised the country you currently live in - I noticed you forgot that little item.

Or do you think god beamed you Americans all down to Texas 6000 years ago?

 

[JohnRM]

And also Europe colonised the country you currently live in - I noticed you forgot that little item.

Or do you think god beamed you Americans all down to Texas 6000 years ago?

That all depends. Are you sure that he is not descendent of one of the Native Tribes?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Why the West will always win

According to Diamond, its because we got the best mammals and cereals.

 

[Dann]

At this time, the products of China head to the West (primarily the USA & Germany), because nobody in that country can really afford what is being sold.

Oh really?

Check out this typical Chinese search engine site and see the insane amount of adverstisements for all sorts of products:
http://www.163.com/

Sorry it's all in Chinese, but the pretty pictures should be understandable to all. And this also proves that these are indeed for domestic consumption.

 

[CurtSibling]

haha!

Looks like John-HSOG got sucked in by anti-Sino propaganda...But Dann re-educated him!



I have no doubt of China's manufacturing potency...
Their products are everywhere in the UK...Mostly for only £1!

 

[Steph]

According to Diamond, its because we got the best mammals and cereals.

According to Diamond, that would be why Middle East had an headstart

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

The West hasn't always won. Remember the Cusades? The only one that actually achieved its goals was the 1st Crusade, all the other ones were defeated by the Muslim defenders.

@Steph: if memory serves, weren't Arabian horses superior to their European counterparts?

 

[CurtSibling]

If we had truly lost, then we would all be speaking Arabic.

.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

I didn't say totally lost. I just said we lost the Crusades.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Well, Hanson's argument is that even in battles where the "West" ( and I use that term lightly due to the ammount of opinions as to what is the West ) may have lost, they have only lost as a result of an enemy using Western technology, tactics, or men and if this was not the case, the West eventually did come back to win supreme.

What he is saying, is that you cannot deny the fact that every continent of Earth has been or is largely controlled at one point or another by the "West", an accomplishment no other "Civilization" has been able to replicate.

Which brings us to his thesis that the West has and will win because its superior culture has allowed it to adapt, create, and conduct war better.

 

[CurtSibling]

I didn't say totally lost. I just said we lost the Crusades.

Just like the USA will lose the current crusade, I fear.

But at least in medieval times and onwards, we won the industrial/economic race.

.

 

[Gelion]

^^ Is gunpoweder a Western technology?