Will technology accomplish what the GOP could not?

[JollyRoger]

Tell us exactly how you would pass that through the House of Teahadists?

It seems that the Tea Cuppers are the ones upset that Obama hasn't taken control of the insurance companies and personally dictated their policy cancellation decisions. They would seem to be the ones most in favor of a government takeover of healthcare.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@el mac - Problem is that fully half of the population feels they will be better off without UHC and the other half has been so alienated by the ACA that they won't support it either.


People truly do not know their interests well enough to vote for them and are quite easily persuaded to vote against them. I don't see a viable way to break that mental headlock. What makes it all worse is the disproportionate power a voter in rural America has versus their more numerous urban counterparts.

That and the extraodinary measures of gerrymanding means our entire political system will require a massive overhaul before we can even begin to talk about UHC.

Or St. Hillary could sweep in a tide election and that might do the trick but leave the underlying problems.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

My union and many others support UHC. There were banners in the Labor Day parade.

Which is probably why there's not much visibility.

There are unions left?

Unleash the right-to-work hounds on the scoundrels!

If you want bargaining power then you should incorporate your own goddamn company and buy a senator you lazy degenerate.

 

[JollyRoger]

Possibly. But if this does crash and burn as it seems to be in the process of doing at this point, do you foresee a groundswell of support for giving the government yet more control over this area?

You think it will crash and burn forever? You think it will be repealed?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I am sick of the 'me me me' generation demanding that everyone give them benefits that are paid for by stealing from hardworking honest Americans. We need to get back to our roots and restore our founding father's vision.

Whatever happened to making an honest living and providing for yourself with the sweat of your own brow and the five black guys you own?

 

[Cutlass]

Possibly. But if this does crash and burn as it seems to be in the process of doing at this point, do you foresee a groundswell of support for giving the government yet more control over this area?

Considering that the private sector involvement is the cause of the problems, then hell yeah.

 

[DinoDoc]

You think it will crash and burn forever?

At the rate its going, just long enough for an actuarial death spiral to set in.

You think it will be repealed?

Ask me in 2016.

 

[DinoDoc]

Considering that the private sector involvement is the cause of the problems, then hell yeah.

We'll see. I doubt you'll see that groundswell of support given that this policy barely passed as it was.

 

[El_Machinae]

Possibly. But if this does crash and burn as it seems to be in the process of doing at this point, do you foresee a groundswell of support for giving the government yet more control over this area?

Yeah, I see where you're going. At this stage, given the theoretical issues with ACA, I think UHC would be a broad improvement. If the ACA gets ingrained (and it likely will, even as a boondoggle), the 'upgrade' to a UHC system should be palatable either way. It'll be a true upgrade at that point, from all perspectives. The alternative is to let 'perfect be the enemy of the good', which'd be (imo) unwise.

@el mac - Problem is that fully half of the population feels they will be better off without UHC and the other half has been so alienated by the ACA that they won't support it either.

Given that Medicare is a UHC system, I doubt it's half the population. The Tea Party is loud, but they're not 'half'.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@dino - At the current rate of shutdowns, there will be no government in 2016. Congrats, your side won a somali-style libertarian paradise.

@El Mac - you underestimate the stupidity of people. Let's not forget the 'get your government hands off my medicare' crowd.

And on healthcare, the tea party does reflect the thoughts of half the population after the botched rollout.

 

[El_Machinae]

@El Mac - you underestimate the stupidity of people. Let's not forget the 'get your government hands off my medicare' crowd.

Yup! That's why I recommended aggressive agitation. Only through information saturation can you change people's minds.

THIS is the core of the issue.

Costs (well, spending anyway) are rising faster than GDP

Incomes certainly are not. Really, imo, that's the basal issue underlying it all.

 

[Cutlass]

We'll see. I doubt you'll see that groundswell of support given that this policy barely passed as it was.

Sure. Conservatives dominate American politics. That's why we got Obamacare instead of a liberal plan. Obamacare is the far right reactionary view of how to do healthcare reform. By freezing liberals out of the plan, we got one that's very difficult to make worse. This was made even worse by hiring a private contractor to build the website. Which caused it to be 10x more expensive, and much less likely to work.

The lesson here is that doing things the conservative way causes failure.

 

[DinoDoc]

I'm not sure that's the lesson the body politic at large will draw in the event of failure here.

 

[Cutlass]

Nope. Conservatives just have to keep up their perfect string of failures longer.

 

[DinoDoc]

Nope. Conservatives just have to keep up their perfect string of failures longer.

No Conservatives voted for this policy or were responsible for implementing it. If they are responsible for this debacle, they made sure to wipe away their fingerprints.

 

[Cutlass]

No Conservatives voted for this policy or were responsible for implementing it. If they are responsible for this debacle, they made sure to wipe away their fingerprints.

Of course conservatives voted for it. Weren't you paying attention? The number of members of Congress who are legitimately conservative who are Democrats outnumber those who are legitimately conservative who are Republicans by at least 4 to 1. And Obama is certainly a conservative as well. The 10% of Congress that is liberals certainly didn't want this. But they went along with it because it was the best the conservatives would go for.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I can't really argue with El Machinae's graphs.

Probably the most convincing argument for UHC since that top line doesn't have it and the bottom lines do.

 

[DinoDoc]

Of course conservatives voted for it.

Your view oddly enough isn't shared by the general public.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Of course conservatives voted for it. Weren't you paying attention? The number of members of Congress who are legitimately conservative who are Democrats outnumber those who are legitimately conservative who are Republicans by at least 4 to 1. And Obama is certainly a conservative as well. The 10% of Congress that is liberals certainly didn't want this. But they went along with it because it was the best the conservatives would go for.

I was wondering why the Democrats didn't nuke the filibuster rule and pass Universal Healthcare when they had the House, Senate, and Presidency.

Obama is a conservative! Thanks

 

[Cutlass]

I can't really argue with El Machinae's graphs.

Probably the most convincing argument for UHC since that top line doesn't have it and the bottom lines do.

There's the trick, really. Under the system the US has, it's really not in anyone's best interest to control costs. Every player in the industry can make themselves better off, if they can raise costs to the other players. Only the government gains nothing from actions which cause costs to increase. Only the government is really on a budget. And politics in the US has been that the government spending follow the market cost push.