Gary Childress
Student for and of life
OTOH, if someone came up with a system where people didn't have to work, I'd vote an enthusiastic "yes"!
Would Communism Be Better Than Capitalism?
- Thread starter Traitorfish
- Start date
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Yeah. Hm. Not all types of labor have inherent value would be the response to that.
The point is to compare it to a system that is minus capitalists, usury, etc., or a literal free market where your personal profit would be related to the quality of your work and the demand others had for it - not hinged to an employer or employers who effectively determine how much money you make.
Again, though, we keep the minimum wage laws to protect those laborers who are not necessarily all three of the above. And there are plenty of married, middle-aged workers whose skills are not in demand but who are willing to work in order to eat, anyway. Increasing numbers of college graduates are in this situation (except the middle-aged bit).
The cartels may fail, but certain members will get rich and out of dodge before the end. Same with corporations - except the corporations may not even fail.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
Of course Communism may have advantages. If we could vote every other week to ritually execute a boss or anyone else deemed to be the cause of all our suffering that would make things a little more amusing. Hmm. Maybe I should have voted "yes" in this poll? 
Of course Communism may have advantages. If we could vote every other week to ritually execute a boss or anyone else deemed to be the cause of all our suffering that would make things a little more amusing. Hmm. Maybe I should have voted "yes" in this poll?
Then why don't we all vote for the candidate that promises to mail each American a cheque for $10,000?
Obviously we'd do that, for shigs and tittles, so democracy will fail. We need a better system of governance than democracy.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
Democracy? What's that?
EDIT: Isn't that the mythical government where everyone wants the same thing and everyone gets it?
Democracy? What's that?
EDIT: Isn't that the mythical government where everyone wants the same thing and everyone gets it?
So you are not in favour of democratically held elections then, because they do not always accurately portray all of the interests of the citizens?
Gogf
Indescribable
How someone can make a statement like this about an economic system and continue to take himself seriously is beyond me.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
If you mean by "democratically held elections" elections of those who would do the least harm, then "yes" I am for "democratically held elections".
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
It would certainly beat ritually executing mentally disabled black men, which is the current diversion of choice.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
You have a point there. I'm pretty pro-mentally disabled black/anti-corporate executive myself. Too bad we can't throw Christians to the lions anymore. But they pretty much run the place now. It's getting harder and harder to find worthy victims. We could maybe go back to the traditional sacrifice of virgins but then I'd be volunteering myself.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You have a point there. I'm pretty pro-mentally disabled black/anti-corporate executive myself. Too bad we can't throw Christians to the lions anymore. But they pretty much run the place now. It's getting harder and harder to find worthy victims. We could maybe go back to the traditional sacrifice of virgins but then I'd be volunteering myself.
You are one hell of a troll.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
You are one hell of a troll.
Excuse me? I would like to repond with what you are but the forum rules would prohibit the truth in this matter. Maybe "jerk" willl have to suffice.
Your sarcastic replies do nothing to further the discussion, and are meaningless jabs in the dark. The only role that kind of sarcasm without content plays is in getting people all uppity about your demeanor.
Gary Childress
Student for and of life
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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- May 28, 2007
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It's not strange at all, really. The government can be both a sponsor and hindrance to progress in many fields.
Individuals, even business magnates, do not always act in their interest. Obesity. Getting into debt. Having kids right out of high school. The list is numerous.
People concentrate on the short-term. As such, if given the chance, many would pay the uneducated workers dirt. (And there's quite a bit of historical precedent here; it's not exactly theory)
Educated workers are hard to come by, so they'd never pay them dirt, because if they do that, the competition will steal those workers. Wages must remain competitive as much as prices. Why should I, with my degree in x, work for a company that pays me 20 dollars an hour, when there's a position open that pays 50 dollars an hour?
While some business leaders had the foresight to see the benefits of taking care of their workers, many did not. How many had to toil all day and night for horrid wages, only to go home to their crowded tenement they shared with a dozen other individuals, and after the rent was paid, barely have enough to buy some bread? What about those who, when working on a machine, had a limb chewed off by it and were left to die in the streets because there was no insurance provided by the company, and they were too poor to afford private insurance?
This is why I'm thoroughly convinced the government's involvement isn't always a bad thing, because for it to always be a bad thing, the unrestricted market must always be a good thing.
I can't take myself seriously because I'm convinced anarcho-communism and laissez-faire capitalism cannot work(or at least aren't sustainable) because they both rely on individuals operating in a certain ideal manner?
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
They do?
They do?
It would take an extremely small number of noncooperative people to upset either system.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
It would?
(And I'm going to keep doing this until somebody actually bothers to substantiate their claims.
)
I believe Gogf wanted to say that since economics is essentially a study of human relationships and behaviour, the manner of your comment sounds... foolish.
You can't view "the system" and "the people within it" separately.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
No, gogf doesn't even believe that. In his mind, economics has nothing to do with people at all, and operates and exists completely independent of social forces.
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