would jesus have joined the army?

[JollyRoger]

New covenant? I thought God was unchanging.

 

[MobBoss]

New covenant? I thought God was unchanging.

He is unchanging, just all part of the plan.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

What about this one? I just want to understand if you really think that the bible calls for unconditional faith.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
(Romans 13:1-7)

 

[MobBoss]

What about this one? I just want to understand if you really think that the bible calls for unconditional faith.

I see that as merely a logical extension of the 'render unto Caesar what is Caesars' lesson, and is there to highlight a decided difference in worldly kingdoms as opposed to the heavenly kingdom.

 

[JollyRoger]

He is unchanging, just all part of the plan.

That changes more than a runway model.

 

[MobBoss]

That changes more than a runway model.

Which answers what you were thinking of while in Sunday School apparently.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I see that as merely a logical extension of the 'render unto Caesar what is Caesars' lesson, and is there to highlight a decided difference in worldly kingdoms as opposed to the heavenly kingdom.

Yeah but how does this relate to the American Revolution? Does the Bible say something about representation without taxation? Or about rights of political emancipation?

 

[JollyRoger]

Which answers what you were thinking of while in Sunday School apparently.

Better than what many other Southern Baptists were thinking.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I'm fairly certain Jesus would have joined the IRA.

 

[MobBoss]

Yeah but how does this relate to the American Revolution? Does the Bible say something about representation without taxation? Or about rights of political emancipation?

I'm sure they will be judged accordingly, but there is also something else called 'Grace' which the bible says 'covers a multitude of sins'. Also, if you read further down in that passage, is a call to not be afraid of authority, so thats part of that as well.

 

[Core Imposter]

What about this one? I just want to understand if you really think that the bible calls for unconditional faith.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Written to the Church an admonishment for the congregation to be obediant to the pastors of the Church, Paul's letter lays out the proper attitude towards the clergy but should not be seen as reaching, imo, further than intended.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.

This passage just told you that the authorities by definition know what is best. Hence, the British Empire knew what is best. You defined a true Christian as one who is not interested in possibilities regarding the Bible, but who simply has faith in what it says. Well, there, it very clearly and unambiguously says, in the New Testament, that what authorities do is by default the will of god.
It of course is a possibility that this is overruled by "grace" or whatever. But you said that it is not about possibilities, but only faith in the Bible.
Care to explain to me how this makes sense? Or is it really your stance that the American Revolution was not in line of being a Christian. If true, isn't America a child of disobeying God? Isn't it a work of the devil so to speak? Aren't all modern nations?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Another utterly biased source.

Hey, i'm more than happy to be hated by folks that hate Christians. To me, it means I must be doing something right.

Yet more paranoia. You are the only one of the two of us who actually hates. Aren't you supposed to forgive instead?

And why did you react so strongly to me when I stated exactly the same thing as JR did? Don't you hate him as well?

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Republican Jesus would.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Okay, I have a new favorite quote

Woe to the world for temptation! ...And if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. (Matthew 17:7-9)

 

[timtofly]

This passage just told you that the authorities by definition know what is best. Hence, the British Empire knew what is best. You defined a true Christian as one who is not interested in possibilities regarding the Bible, but who simply has faith in what it says. Well, there, it very clearly and unambiguously says, in the New Testament, that what authorities do is by default the will of god.
It of course is a possibility that this is overruled by "grace" or whatever. But you said that it is not about possibilities, but only faith in the Bible.
Care to explain to me how this makes sense? Or is it really your stance that the American Revolution was not in line of being a Christian. If true, isn't America a child of disobeying God? Isn't it a work of the devil so to speak? Aren't all modern nations?

How do we know, that God was not creating a new government on a new continent? The admonition was given to the church to not fear governments whether they are good or bad, because He is in control of those who govern. He will also allow the destruction of a government if that government becomes oppressive to the orphans and widows. The church is not supposed to fear, but they should obey the laws as long as they do not go against God. One is to fear God, not men. The church is not supposed to rebel and set up their own authority. Also, God does not control governments authoritarian, but authoritative, he lets them put together their own ideologies.

Okay, I have a new favorite quote

It seems that nothing should come between you and God, not even a body part.

 

[peter grimes]

How do we know, that God was not creating a new government on a new continent? The admonition was given to the church to not fear governments whether they are good or bad, because He is in control of those who govern. He will also allow the destruction of a government if that government becomes oppressive to the orphans and widows. The church is not supposed to fear, but they should obey the laws as long as they do not go against God. One is to fear God, not men. The church is not supposed to rebel and set up their own authority. Also, God does not control governments authoritarian, but authoritative, he lets them put together their own ideologies.

I think quite a few North Koreans would find this justification disgusting.

 

[_random_]

He didn't join the Roman army. I'm kind of drawn to the pacifist tradition withing Christianity myself, but I don't think your critique really works.

then why didnt he do that when his enemies crucified him?

You should read the Passion accounts. This is actually a pretty big part.

 

[Berzerker]

Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

he's talking about his message creating strife, even among families as some accept the word and others do not

but the notion Jesus endorsed the state and condemned lawbreakers is illogical given the fact he was executed for breaking the law, actually made a habit of violating laws.

 

[timtofly]

I think quite a few North Koreans would find this justification disgusting.

How are their orphans and widows fairing? Compared to any other country? I am not talking about human rights here. To those who live in a free world, their human rights violation is disgusting. God allows humans to treat other humans in disgusting ways. In fact He seemed to set it up so governments could easily kill Christians and there was very little they could do about it, but trust God. That is disgusting in itself, but most have forgotten that part of the equation.

Humans can come up with some very unique ideologies, but yet complain that God is not doing his job?