Would the GOP types push the USA into default ?

[FriendlyFire]

Hell yea! Rich people should tell poor people how to vote. And they should be grateful too!

I thought Republicans were all for that when you receive government tax payer money. You had to comply with what those tax payers wanted and they should be grateful too!

Unless its government subsidies for corporations, then its should have no strings attached.

 

[Murky]

Some men would burn it all to ground so long as they can rule over the ashes.

 

[woody60707]

I thought Republicans were all for that when you receive government tax payer money. You had to comply with what those tax payers wanted and they should be grateful too!

Unless its government subsidies for corporations, then its should have no strings attached.

I thought that what the Dems were saying? At least that what the image made it look like.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So under the constitution of the USA. The USA MUST service its debt first and without the ability to borrow to means that the US budget must be slashed. we are talking austerity ? hyperinflation ? bank run ? rioting ? several years of recession.

On the other hand the US could renegotiate it debt, cents for dollar and large part of the elderly Republican population would have died as a result.

How about the Federal Reserve forgives $1 trillion worth of treasuries they are holding?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-18/guest-post-should-central-banks-cancel-government-debt

Our national debt instantly goes down $1 trillion, the fed suspends payments to the treasury until the hole on their balance sheet refills, and we don't hit the debt ceiling again for 15 months.

Might as well use that printing press and do some good.
Wouldn't be a loan. More like a gift.

Could offset the inflation by paying more printed money for excess reserves. Something more than the current 0.25%

Bernanke could resign a tad early to avoid perjury.

 

[FriendlyFire]

How about the Federal Reserve forgives $1 trillion worth of treasuries they are holding?

Dont forget Impeachment ?
That like a WIN-WIN.

The Danger Lurking Behind the Platinum Coin This way lies the risk of impeachment.

The idea that President Obama could evade the debt limit by ordering the Treasury Department to mint a $1 trillion platinum coin started off as a joke, or a quasi-joke, but now, thanks in part to Paul Krugman as well as to many other influential commentators (even the former head of the U.S. Mint), is being taken seriously. And if serious people take it seriously, then the coin loses its fairy-tale quality, and why not go through with it? The answer is that the legal case for the platinum coin is not as strong as people think, and if the president gets this wrong, the consequences could be severe.

The theory for the platinum coin is weak enough to provide the legal basis for impeachment and absurd enough to provide the political basis. The $1 trillion coin would feed fears of an out-of-control president

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._risk_of_impeachment_for_president_obama.html

 

[Murky]

Dont forget Impeachment ?
That like a WIN-WIN.

The biggest fear for the platinum coin is on the right because if they lose the debt ceiling leverage they have no bargaining chip to use against whatever the President wants.

At this point they will threaten impeachment at the slightest hint of defiance.

 

[Leoreth]

It's so ridiculous that this is even contemplated.

 

[Kyriakos]

It is a bit like a woman in a dark alley, pondering heavily which of the two nasty-looking men who prevent her from exiting that place of horror, shall be held primarily accountable for her soon-to-happen rape.

Maybe it is not very reasonable to worry about that now. Unless you are resigned to the idea that you are about to be virtually reduced to a thing no longer recognisable to you or anyone else.

 

[Antilogic]

From Wiki:
If the bill had been subjected to regular order, it would never have passed.

Stupid Congress, passing bills with a majority vote in both Houses and no chance for indefinite filibuster except that one chance that already passed.

The obvious thing here is that the GOP lacked the ability to go after Obamacare's funding as it get's its money through statutory rather than budgetary means. The simple way to have ended this would have been to offer to scrap the unpopular medical device tax and accept the Vitter Amendment.The asinine thing here is there's nothing to negotiate here. It's just two groups of people who have simply decided to act like prissy little es at the expense of the public.“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

The hostage they wanted to kill isn't even in the building and was beyond the reach of these measures awhile ago. We seem to be stuck with the fact that both parties in this farce seem intent on acting like prissy little debutantes than in actually governing.

More false equatism. Can't get away from it.

It's so ridiculous that this is even contemplated.

Seriously, has any other nation in the history of man threatened to voluntarily default on its obligations despite being perfectly able to fulfill them? Note that we are actually talking about paying off foreign creditors before domestic ones with no foreign military pressure, a complete reversal of standard priorities. This self-imposed catastrophu... uhh, can't finish that word because profanity rules. Yeah. It's bad.

 

[Kyriakos]

Seriously, has any other nation in the history of man threatened to voluntarily default on its obligations despite being perfectly able to fulfill them?

Is that certain? The US currently has an astronomical debt, far exceeding anything its economy can produce in years from now even if it cuts spending in multiple orders of ten percent, which cannot happen without itself ruining the economy even more quickly, so why should one think it is 'perfectly able to fulfull' its obligations?

Sadly i do not think this is the case. The erosion of many western countries (including the Usa) in terms of de-industrialising has inevitably led to the current situation. Politicians played a hugely detrimental role in that, of course.

 

[Antilogic]

Is that certain? The US currently has an astronomical debt, far exceeding anything its economy can produce in years from now even if it cuts spending in multiple orders of ten percent, which cannot happen without itself ruining the economy even more quickly, so why should one think it is 'perfectly able to fulfull' its obligations?

Sadly i do not think this is the case. The erosion of many western countries (including the Usa) in terms of de-industrialising has inevitably led to the current situation. Politicians played a hugely detrimental role in that, of course.

It's not astronomical relative to our GDP, especially compared to the history of our English-speaking brethren across the pond.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Then you should be on my side, supporting this shutdown and hoping to hell it leads to the abandonment of this worst abomination of crap medical plan. It's a crap plan and not a solution at all.

Neither is a shutdown. That just adds to the problems. Or do you think that a shutdown will cause all of this to go away?

I hate to put blame primarily on one side, but in this case I can't avoid it. What caused all of this is the people you voted for in 2008 and 2010. They put themselves in a position which made it impossible for them to be involved in the process of governing which in a democracy must include making compromises. Their position all along has been: "We will not compromise on our principles" so instead of trying to improve Healthcare they labelled it Obamacare and did everything in their power to make it fail. Openly. Being cheered on. Just as you are doing right now. Cheering for another fail.

Is your country not USA #1? Can it not implement a law which takes care of the concerns it's citizens have over their healthcare? You guys have pulled off some amazing stuff, surely healthcare isn't the thing that makes your country throw it's hands in the air going: this is too hard, lets just sit on our collective arses? Surely you deserve more from your leaders. You shouldn't be glad that there is a shutdown. You should be enraged that these men who are supposed to be the face of your political ideology can't come up with something more profound than: Screw you guys, we're going home!

Since I copped out with the word "primarily", I still left some room to blame the guys on the other side, who were not able to counter the vast amount of ridiculous criticism being levelled at their Healthcare plan. They may have been passive, but they sure as hell should have been able to stand up to that level of nonsense.

The funny thing is, people are very eager to distance themselves from either party when asked where their allegiance lies, but it's threads like these where you can see them being played like a fiddle (notice I'm speaking 3rd person here)

Hey, whaddya know. I've been caught ranting.

 

[sophie]

It's not astronomical relative to our GDP, especially compared to the history of our English-speaking brethren across the pond.

This is also hilarious coming from a Greek.

 

[Antilogic]

The funny thing is, people are very eager to distance themselves from either party when asked where their allegiance lies, but it's threads like these where you can see them being played like a fiddle (notice I'm speaking 3rd person here)

I'd be more than happy to call myself either a Democrat or a Republican if they would start doing what I'm telling them to do. Alas, they don't.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is also hilarious coming from a Greek.

^Not if you can replug yourself to your brain for a second. My point was exactly that the US has equally serious problems with the debt, as my own country. Only, unlike you, i do not view that as a joke, but as quite alarming.

 

[Antilogic]

^Not if you can replug yourself to your brain for a second. My point was exactly that the US has equally serious problems with the debt, as my own country. Only, unlike you, i do not view that as a joke, but as quite alarming.

No. We have our own currency. Our debt load is something like 90% of GDP, Greece is something like 150% of GDP. It's not remotely similar.

 

[Kyriakos]

No. We have our own currency. Our debt load is something like 90% of GDP, Greece is something like 150% of GDP. It's not remotely similar.

Greece's debt was less than 90% of the GDP in 2007. And printing endless billions of dollars won't help you when the dollar gets even more devalued. And i am not sure if 17 trillion dollars are just 90% of the US gdp... (edit: of course it is not even close, given that the US Gdp is less than 15 trillion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) ).

But have a nice dream.

 

[Leoreth]

Japan is the better comparison here for a number of reasons.

The US have a functioning bureaucracy, a solid economic base and control over its own currency to offer, all of which Greece lacks.

 

[Antilogic]

Greece's debt was less than 90% of the GDP in 2007. And printing endless billions of dollars won't help you when the dollar gets even more devalued. And i am not sure if 17 trillion dollars are just 90% of the US gdp... (edit: of course it is not even close, given that the US Gdp is less than 15 trillion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) ).

But have a nice dream.

That'll teach me for using the 2011 numbers off the top of my head instead of looking it up.

But you are still missing the point about a state controlling its own currency.

 

[Cutlass]

America's situation is fundamentally different from Greece's for several reasons. One, the economic situation is not nearly as bad. Second, as dysfunctional as our government currently is, it's still much better than Greece. Third, we are not at the mercy of other countries telling us what we can and cannot do. Fourth, we can always pump up the money supply.