WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

[Ayn Rand]

Building a community center isn't offensive, burning a holy book is.

But when people threaten to commit acts of terrorism to try and intimidate a free people, you hold the free people responsible and insist that they surrender to force.

In the Free World, we have the right to criticise religions, to draw cartoons of Prophets and to do what we want with books we own. No-one has a right to intimidate us into silence.

And if the President wants to defend a symbol, he can start by defending the flag of the Country he is supposed to be leading.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But when people threaten to commit acts of terrorism to try and intimidate a free people, you hold the free people responsible and insist that they surrender to force.

In the Free World, we have the right to criticise religions, to draw cartoons of Prophets and to do what we want with books we own. No-one has a right to intimidate us into silence.

And if the President wants to defend a symbol, he can start by defending the flag of the Country he is supposed to be leading.

What does any of this has to do with the fact that: "Building a community center isn't offensive, burning a holy book is."?

 

[bhsup]

Danny, it IS perfectly okay to burn a Koran. Just as it is perfectly okay to burn a Bible. They are JUST PAPER. Getting freaked out over it and threatening to kill people over paper? Whoa man, me thinks some idolatry is going on here.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I will say that anyone who says that burning a Qur'an is a reasonable response to burning an American flag can go ahead and say so, as long as they promise never to say that the ideals of those who burn Qur'ans are better than the ideals of those who burn flags, ever again.

Yes, sure, I agree there is no reason to take offense at having your holy book burned - certainly not violence, that isn't an appropriate response. But doing it in the first place is still kind of dumb.

 

[warpus]

Danny, it IS perfectly okay to burn a Koran. Just as it is perfectly okay to burn a Bible. They are JUST PAPER. Getting freaked out over it and threatening to kill people over paper? Whoa man, me thinks some idolatry is going on here.

I think you need to read this book

 

[ParadigmShifter]

And listen to this song


Link to video.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

The newspaper says that the leaders of the mosque thing say they will move it to prevent the burning of the book.

 

[storical]

But when people threaten to commit acts of terrorism to try and intimidate a free people, you hold the free people responsible and insist that they surrender to force.

In the Free World, we have the right to criticise religions, to draw cartoons of Prophets and to do what we want with books we own. No-one has a right to intimidate us into silence.

And if the President wants to defend a symbol, he can start by defending the flag of the Country he is supposed to be leading.

The majority and I agree with you Ayn. The others who disagree, can go live in Iran. Maybe they can get hired as flag burning apprentices. The American flag to me, means infinitely more than a few old insignificant Korans. And I also want to point out that these morons have been burning our flag for years, this is not a new trend because of the book burning issue. It's time we started sticking up for what we believe in.

What does any of this has to do with the fact that: "Building a community center isn't offensive, burning a holy book is."?

What does that have to do with them burning our flag? To me burning the symbol of our country has to come first to me.

 

[Tee Kay]

By lowering yourself to their level?

edit; crosspost with jollyroger

 

[JollyRoger]

It's time we started sticking up for what we believe in.

By acting like those you despise?

 

[dannyshenanigan]

Danny, it IS perfectly okay to burn a Koran. Just as it is perfectly okay to burn a Bible. They are JUST PAPER. Getting freaked out over it and threatening to kill people over paper? Whoa man, me thinks some idolatry is going on here.

I agree it shouldn't really be a big deal as it is just paper, and there is nothing legally wrong with it. Unfortunately many Muslims in other countries will construe the actions of this small group of Koran burners with all Americans. Sounds like a similar mentality to many Islamophobes, an inability to grasp the differences between a small group of individuals with a whole group. They both reduce their thought process to "us versus them" with little nuance. We all need to rise above this mentality.

I also think it's important to note that the people behind park51 aren't burning American flags.

 

[Leonel]

Burning a flag is one thing. Hardly many things happen after burning flags.

Burning books, however, have a historical precedent of preceding terrible things.

 

[Ayn Rand]

The American flag to me, means infinitely more than a few old insignificant Korans.

Exactly. And if we really were on the level of the flag-burners, we would have been suicide-bombing them for years in retaliation. These situations could easily have been avoided if mutual respect was shown, but I just don't think they respect us.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why suicide bomb when you can just drop stuff from the air?

 

[Ajidica]

I've been seeing pictures of American flags burning all week in the newspapers. US President says nothing. The symbol of a free country is apparently worthless compared to the symbol of an oppressive religion.

Well first off the flag burning isn't going on in America. Obama has no legal authority over events in other, soverign nations.
Furthermore, Islam is no more oppressive than other faiths. There may be parts of the Hadith or other writings that are slightly oppressive, but the Qu'ran itself, the actual divine revelation, is no more oppressive than Christianity or even Judaism with the 613 Mitzvoh.

So now the mosque-builders have double-crossed him - we're back to the familiar "you will submit to Islam" mentality.

Source. Preferably one of a better repute than the Daily Mail.

Only men like Jones understand the true nature of the intolerance we are up against.

So he must catch up with the Jones on the cutting edge way to show intolerance and extremism? Dude, lets be better than the nutters!

I hope he carries through his protest on behalf of all the free people of the World, especially those living under the nightmare of Islamic dictatorships in the Middle East.

There aren't really any 'dictatorships' left in the ME. Closest I think there is is Saudi Arabia. Isn't it actualy a Constitutional monarchy by now?
While some 'democracies' are piss poor democracies, they aren't that much worse than some of the antics in Eastern Europe.

 

[storical]

Why suicide bomb when you can just drop stuff from the air?

Why don't we just hire the Expendables!

 

[Ayn Rand]

Furthermore, Islam is no more oppressive than other faiths.

Nonsense.

There aren't really any 'dictatorships' left in the ME.

Nonsense.

Ajidica, your World-view is not even based on reality.

 

[Leonel]

Nonsense.

Nonsense.

Ajidica, your World-view is not even based on reality.

He's got a point, Ajidica. How can you argue with such flawless logic and evidence to the contrary?

 

[Ajidica]

Nonsense.

Okay, lets see. Here is a wonderful gem from Romans:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore, one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

Whoops!

Nonsense.

Ajidica, your World-view is not even based on reality.

I clarified it, most are 'democracies'. The vailidity of their democratic processes is open to debate.
As I said, most are piss-poor democracies. But the base for an actual democratic process still exists. Yes there is human rights violations, yes there is suspect acts with rigging voting machines and so on. But to call them a dictatorship is smudging the truth a little too much.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Okay, lets see. Here is a wonderful gem from Romans:

Whoops!

Arguably the most bizarre defence of the human rights records of Islamic countries that I've ever seen.

Just go and compare the human rights record of European democracies with Islamic countries. Try to learn something about how things really work in that part of the World.

I clarified it, most are 'democracies'. The vailidity of their democratic processes is open to debate.
As I said, most are piss-poor democracies. But the base for an actual democratic process still exists. Yes there is human rights violations, yes there is suspect acts with rigging voting machines and so on. But to call them a dictatorship is smudging the truth a little too much.

Weak. When did you stop being a rational socialist?