WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

[Ajidica]

Arguably the most bizarre defence of the human rights records of Islamic countries that I've ever seen.

So officialy secular countries are now Islamic?
Regardless, I wasn't using this to refer to their human rights records. Rather, it was in refrence to you calling Islam 'oppressive'.

Just go and compare the human rights record of European democracies with Islamic countries. Try to learn something about how things really work in that part of the World.

They suck, yes. But so did Europe for a long time during their Industrial Revolution. Their industrialization is coming later.

Weak. When did you stop being a rational socialist?

Well, you have said socialists aren't rational.......
In all seriousness, almost all of them are officialy democracies and follow some democratic procedures. Definitly they don't have the best track record doing so. I fully agree to that. However, calling a state 'dictatorial' just because they don't have a perfect history of following democratic procedures or some shady deals is incorrect in my opinion.

 

[Ayn Rand]

They suck, yes. But so did Europe for a long time during their Industrial Revolution. Their industrialization is coming later.

Saudi Arabia is not going through the Industrial Revolution - it is already richer than most Western countries. It has the internet, cars, high-rise apartments and all the other modern technologies.

Even during the industrial revolution, people in Britain didn't stone women to death or execute homosexuals. They choose to do these things because they are Islamic, and it has nothing to do with their wealth or technology.

Whenever someone points out the truth about this evil religion you get upset. But whenever this evil religion kills or tortures more innocent victims as part of its normal, day-day operation, you not only fail to be upset by it - you actually claim it is democracy.

Whatever happened to religion being "the Opium of the people"? Whatever happened to progress out of primitive feudalism? Whatever happened to empathy for your fellow socialists who are tortured and executed by Islam around the World? I'm at a loss to understand.

 

[Cutlass]

Germany executed homosexuals long after they had their industrial revolution. In fact, did it within the living memory of many people.

 

[Xanikk999]

Germany executed homosexuals long after they had their industrial revolution. In fact, did it within the living memory of many people.

Oddly enough they were one of the most liberal countries in the late 19th century in regards to socialism. It all went downhill when the nationalist socialist party (aka the nazis) took over in the 30s.

 

[storical]

So officialy secular countries are now Islamic?
Regardless, I wasn't using this to refer to their human rights records. Rather, it was in refrence to you calling Islam 'oppressive'.


They suck, yes. But so did Europe for a long time during their Industrial Revolution. Their industrialization is coming later.


Well, you have said socialists aren't rational.......
In all seriousness, almost all of them are officialy democracies and follow some democratic procedures. Definitly they don't have the best track record doing so. I fully agree to that. However, calling a state 'dictatorial' just because they don't have a perfect history of following democratic procedures or some shady deals is incorrect in my opinion.

Let me ask you a question, are you even American? Go watch a few youtube videos on the twin towers, do tears form in your eyes? Take a look at what people did to thousands of us in the name of Islam! Now get your head screwed on straight. All I hear is excuse after excuse, I surely wish one of your pathetic excuses, could have saved one life that day.

 

[Ajidica]

Saudi Arabia is not going through the Industrial Revolution - it is already richer than most Western countries. It has the internet, cars, high-rise apartments and all the other modern technologies.

Concentrated among the rich. The wealth has not been democratized. Furthermore, they exist basicaly as a source for raw materials. They don't 'produce' anything besides oil. Oil won't last forever.

Even during the industrial revolution, people in Britain didn't stone women to death or execute homosexuals. They choose to do these things because they are Islamic, and it has nothing to do with their wealth or technology.

So Islam is inseparable from stoning and executions? I wonder why then the Muslims at my school aren't advocating the murder of the gay kids?
Culture=/= equal religion. Christianity has just as many passages about 'kill the gays' as Islam. Does that mean Christianity is inherently violent? Nope.

Whenever someone points out the truth about this evil religion you get upset.

Islam is neither good nor evil. It is the followers who are good or evil.

But whenever this evil religion kills or tortures more innocent victims as part of its normal, day-day operation, you not only fail to be upset by it - you actually claim it is democracy

.
When have I claimed officialy secular states as being Islamic? It is the predominant faith, but the majority of them aren't 'Muslim' states.

Whatever happened to religion being "the Opium of the people"?

I believe that was more Nietzsche than Marx.

Whatever happened to progress out of primitive feudalism?

They have to progress to Capitalism first. Currently they are capitalist without the truiumph of the bourgeoisie.

Whatever happened to empathy for your fellow socialists who are tortured and executed by Islam around the World? I'm at a loss to understand.

For everything there is a time. Socialism works best in an industrialized country.

Let me ask you a question, are you even American?

Yes. 17 years of living here.

Go watch a few youtube videos on the twin towers, do tears form in your eyes?

Yes. However my rage is against intolerance and extremism. Not the faith.

Take a look at what people did to thousands of us in the name of Islam!

Catholics murdered and pillaged Jerusalem, Antioch, and Constantinople. In the name of God they killed far more than the terrorists. Should we fear all Catholics?

Now get your head screwed on straight. All I hear is excuse after excuse, I surely wish one of your pathetic excuses, could have saved one life that day.

We knew there was a terrorist attack being planned. The NSA and FBI were frilling incompetant.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Let me ask you a question, are you even American? Go watch a few youtube videos on the twin towers, do tears form in your eyes? Take a look at what people did to thousands of us in the name of Islam! Now get your head screwed on straight. All I hear is excuse after excuse, I surely wish one of your pathetic excuses, could have saved one life that day.

freedom of religion > appeals to emotion

 

[storical]

Concentrated among the rich. The wealth has not been democratized. Furthermore, they exist basicaly as a source for raw materials. They don't 'produce' anything besides oil. Oil won't last forever.


So Islam is inseparable from stoning and executions? I wonder why then the Muslims at my school aren't advocating the murder of the gay kids?
Culture=/= equal religion. Christianity has just as many passages about 'kill the gays' as Islam. Does that mean Christianity is inherently violent? Nope.


Islam is neither good nor evil. It is the followers who are good or evil.
.
When have I claimed officialy secular states as being Islamic? It is the predominant faith, but the majority of them aren't 'Muslim' states.


I believe that was more Nietzsche than Marx.

They have to progress to Capitalism first. Currently they are capitalist without the truiumph of the bourgeoisie.

For everything there is a time. Socialism works best in an industrialized country.


Yes. 17 years of living here.

Yes. However my rage is against intolerance and extremism. Not the faith.

Catholics murdered and pillaged Jerusalem, Antioch, and Constantinople. In the name of God they killed far more than the terrorists. Should we fear all Catholics?

We knew there was a terrorist attack being planned. The NSA and FBI were frilling incompetant.

I would say it would be very hard to count exact deaths on both sides, since the time of the first crusade. There was alot of wars, and alot of genocide since then. I think both sides can kill fairly equally. I would not want to know the numbers, but probably much higher than most people can count.

Yes, and I know about Catholics, and indulgences, and murder. You should not fear Catholics now, but let me you something, you should have feared them then. Just like we should fear Islam now(just like the Catholics then, you don't know who is a murderer now).

Perhaps we are reaping what we have sown. I do not hold myself responsible, for what my people did then. I am not those men! If you last line is true(that our government knew), and I have heard these things as well. If it's true then I say we are truly in big trouble.

I don't know what to think from here on out. There is alot of hate out there. Where do you begin to stop it? I am not sure there is a way. We argue back and forth on this forum like a pack of old ladies! For what purpose to give each other a headache?!

 

[Tee Kay]

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Men willingly believe what they wish.

- Gaius Julius Caesar

 

[Ajidica]

I would say it would be very hard to count exact deaths on both sides, since the time of the first crusade. There was alot of wars, and alot of genocide since then. I think both sides can kill fairly equally. I would not want to know the numbers, but probably much higher than most people can count.

Yep. Both religions preach peace. Somehow man has turned a message of peace and universal brotherhood into one of war and division.

Yes, and I know about Catholics, and indulgences, and murder. You should not fear Catholics now, but let me you something, you should have feared them then. Just like we should fear Islam now(just like the Catholics then, you don't know who is a murderer now).

The man who fights dragons too long becomes a dragon himself.

Hate begets hate.
If I hate them, why should they feel anything but hate for me? Let the West lead the way in tolerance and understanding. We had the Enlightenment. Let us emulate that rather than the Inquisition and the Dark Ages.

Perhaps we are reaping what we have sown. I do not hold myself responsible, for what my people did then. I am not those men! If you last line is true(that our government knew), and I have heard these things as well. If it's true then I say we are truly in big trouble.

They didn't have 'absolute perfect proof' in all departments. If the departments and organizations had talked a bit more they could have put 2 and 2 together.

 

[storical]

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Men willingly believe what they wish.

- Gaius Julius Caesar

Nothing is more difficult, and therefore more precious, than to be able to decide.
Napoleon Bonaparte

What arguements those too would have had, lol!

As for Latin I have always liked this,

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Weak men threaten, real men do

 

[storical]

Yep. Both religions preach peace. Somehow man has turned a message of peace and universal brotherhood into one of war and division.



Hate begets hate.
If I hate them, why should they feel anything but hate for me? Let the West lead the way in tolerance and understanding. We had the Enlightenment. Let us emulate that rather than the Inquisition and the Dark Ages.


They didn't have 'absolute perfect proof' in all departments. If the departments and organizations had talked a bit more they could have put 2 and 2 together.

I believe your right, it makes sense. I love peace and quiet. I hate to say it, but I think that hate is going to be the way for mankind for some time to come. I hope that I am wrong, I really truly do.

 

[Traitorfish]

freedom of religion > appeals to emotion

This should be carved in the sky in blazing, mile-high letters.

Yes, and I know about Catholics, and indulgences, and murder. You should not fear Catholics now, but let me you something, you should have feared them then. Just like we should fear Islam now(just like the Catholics then, you don't know who is a murderer now).

You should have feared Catholics, or the Catholic powers? The Kingdom of Spain may have been a formidable foe, but that didn't exactly justify the English driving half a million Irish dirt-farmers "to hell or to Connacht".

 

[storical]

This should be carved in the sky in blazing, mile-high letters.


You should have feared Catholics, or the Catholic powers? The Kingdom of Spain may have been a formidable foe, but that didn't exactly justify the English driving half a million Irish dirt-farmers "to hell or to Connacht".

Yes, we can't forget about that!

 

[Ayn Rand]

You should not fear Catholics now, but let me you something, you should have feared them then. Just like we should fear Islam now

Pretty much sums it up. Catholicism had its teeth pulled after centuries of struggle and war. One way or another, we are going to end up going through the same process with Islam. In its current form, it is little more than a religion of darkness and oppression that has enslaved and brainwashed hundreds of millions of people around the World.

However, there is something about labelling an ideology based on fascist lies a "religion" that makes the weak and gullible consider it to be of a higher value or truth than Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. It isn't - Islam is no more sacred than Japanese Imperialism or Italian Fascism. It is a man-made ideology, it is as oppressive as any similar man-made ideology, and it can be questioned and exposed as nonsense by men, because it was invented and is being violently carried forward by men.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And I also want to point out that these morons have been burning our flag for years, this is not a new trend because of the book burning issue.

Tell it to Ayn Rand The Poster, he wonders why flag burning isn't news

What does that have to do with them burning our flag? To me burning the symbol of our country has to come first to me.

What on Earth are you talking about? Actually reading my post and replying to the content of it would really make more sense.

In fact you are agreeing with me, do you know that?

Burning flags is offensive.
Burning Korans is offensive.
Building a community center with a mosque two blocks away from ground zero is not offensive.
Heck, I'll do you one better, including a mosque in the Freedom Tower is not offensive.

 

[storical]

Tell it to Ayn Rand The Poster, he wonders why flag burning isn't news

What on Earth are you talking about? Actually reading my post and replying to the content of it would really make more sense.

In fact you are agreeing with me, do you know that?

Burning flags is offensive.
Burning Korans is offensive.
Building a community center with a mosque two blocks away from ground zero is not offensive.
Heck, I'll do you one better, including a mosque in the Freedom Tower is not offensive.

Yes, I do agree with you on some points. I really do not think burning a book is going to solve the problem. But I am of course more than upset at these Islamic radicals, and building that mosque at ground zero is not a good idea. It causes hate, because not everyone agrees the same, when it comes to what happened there. So, really what good would it do for a community, so equally opposed on that issue. Not because I really believe the mosque is radical, because I don't believe it is. I believe in their good faith, these are good people trying to do what they think is right. I do not care if they have a community mosque, what does that hurt, nothing at all. I just feel the location is too close to ground zero, and many people are still trying to heal from that episode. That's all I am saying. I wish they would make a brotherhood center for every religion a floor or two for each. We all need to get along, what good does it do for us no to.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

So we all get along by telling them to 'shove it' and find a different place to build their mosque?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Nothing is more difficult, and therefore more precious, than to be able to decide.
Napoleon Bonaparte

What arguements those too would have had, lol!

As for Latin I have always liked this,

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Weak men threaten, real men do

Is that last line of English supposed to be a translation fo the Latin line before it? If it is, your Latin really sucks.

"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes" is "Who shall guard the guards themselves?"

 

[El_Machinae]

Danny, it IS perfectly okay to burn a Koran. Just as it is perfectly okay to burn a Bible. They are JUST PAPER. Getting freaked out over it and threatening to kill people over paper? Whoa man, me thinks some idolatry is going on here.

Man, I totally agree. Getting upset about someone's defacing of a Bible, flag, or Qur'an does seem like a type of idolatry. That said, I think that each Qur'an is actually more important in Islam than Bibles are in Christianity. In that, there's functionally more blasphemy with defacing a Qur'an than defacing a Bible.

I think we should be pushing so that people aren't offended by these provocations, and to suggest that 'vandalism' or even 'getting angry' aren't appropriate responses. But we should recognise that, apparently, the outrage invoked by the acts are not equal.