[WTP] Quick questions

[raystuttgart]

@mastrude

In WTP the Natives also slowly regenerate their money independently of you buying their goods. (Depends on the size of their tribe.)
But buying their cheap goods will of course help them to replenish their money faster. (Buying their cheap stuff is worth it for a long time in the game.)

You can easily trade with them until endgame if you also regularly buy the stuff they sell cheap.
Wiping a Native Village out is usually a very bad choice because you will miss all the other features they offer.

Generally considering Prices in Native Villages:
It depends on massive amount of factors: But mostly "their need for it" and their Attitude towards you.
Otherwise simply check the prices in Europe / Africa / Port Royal to see if it is worth to buy it.

Generally considering Goods:
Manage prices in Europe carefully and do not ruin them by "flooding" the market for a specific good too fast.
WTP wants you to think which goods to buy and which goods to sell. It more or less follows "normal market" rules.

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Summary:
WTP is not a mod that offers simply "True / False" answers that are always correct. That would be boring.
Everything depends on other factors in the game that again depend partially on randomness but mostly on the decisions you took in your game.

 

[mastrude]

@mastrude
But buying their cheap goods will of course help them to replenish their money faster. (Buying their cheap stuff is worth it for a long time in the game.)

You can easily trade with them until endgame if you also regularly buy the stuff they sell cheap.
Wiping a Native Village out is usually a very bad choice because you will miss all the other features they offer.

A good, sophisticated answer. Thanks.
Do you care to answer my question about maps?

 

[raystuttgart]

What maps work best for WtP?

What do you consider "best"?

Most immersive?
--> Try one of the "Americas Gigantic" Scenarios

Easy / overpowered map for "Giant Empire Building"?
--> Try "Two Continents" Scenario

More challenging map for "Giant Empire Building"?
--> Try "Amerayca" Scenario

...

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About other maps:

Maps not created using WTP will not work. So do never use a map delivered by or created for another mod.
WTP is so vastly different from all other mods that maps of other mods will definitely cause bugs (most likely even CTDs).

You can of course create your own maps with Worldbuilder using WTP mod if you read the tutorial for it in this forum.
But again Maps created using Worldbuilder using another mod will not work.

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Comment:

Maps have been discussed at least a dozen times already in this forum.
Simply read a bit through the threads and see what the other players wrote.

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Summary:

Every map was created for another "playstyle" and "personal taste".
Simply try them and decide for your own.

 

[mastrude]

About play style: Personally I've always tried to develop resources to knock off the kind by founding three cities, adding one or two more if I had to at the end. Other players develop vast empires. What do you do/recommend.

I've never been a particularly good Civ IV or Col. player. So I'd like to know your response.

Fairly frequently I forget entirely about the revolution phase of the game (playing Kairic's Privateers mod,)s let the king win and develop a vast pirate empire, sustained by smuggling. I like that WtP seems to allow that.

 

[raystuttgart]

What do you do/recommend.

Vast Empire is definitely better in WOI.

If you have only 3 strongly fortified cities you will be overrun by the King's REF because it is much bigger and stronger.
If you have a vast empire you can fight a War of Attrition using Guerilla tactics.

Withdrawing, healing / resupplying, attacking, withdrawing, healing / resupplying, attacking, withdrawing, healing, healing / resupplying, attacking, withdrawing, healing, ...
That is basically the only really feasible way to win the War of Indendence. In direct face to face war you stand no chance against the King.

It is also more fun for me personally because it is more challenging considering economy and transportation.

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Summary:
I doubt that anybody having had only 3 cities has ever won War of Independence.
But otherwise if you are not playing to win but just playing to relax it does not really matter.

 

[mastrude]

Ray Said: "If you have only 3 strongly fortified cities you will be overrun by the King's REF because it is much bigger and stronger. If you have a vast empire you can fight a War of Attrition using Guerilla tactics."

Well, I said I wasn't a good Col. player. I didn't even fortify 3 cities. I bought all the guns, cannons and tools I could afford, and tried to max out population. I fortified ONE city, withdrew all my forces to it, and played defense until I wore the king out. In theory. It seldom worked but it was the best strategy I could think of.

I don't like fighting the indians and there aren't that many really profitable spots close together. So few cities. Sound like you'd go for many more. Far from each other, with their own ports? Or close together?

 

[raystuttgart]

Sound like you'd go for many more.

Yes I do. Because I try to create massive empires on Gigantic Maps. The "Empire Building" is the reason I like Civ4Col with WTP so much.
My normal empires have at least 30 Cities in endgame. I even had games with 60+ Cities if I was really in the mood to do so.

I don't like fighting the indians ...

No problem. If you use the complete map and not just your starting location you can still easily create empires of 30+ Cities without ever fighting them.

... there aren't that many really profitable spots close together.

Why do they need to be close together?

I ususally form many colonisation clusters of a couple of cities connected by roads.
Between these clusters there can be vast distances without road connections.

So in an game where I try to get a "Giant Empire" something between 30 to 60 cities is easily possible in endgame.
Especially if you also expand deeper inland (2 or 3 Cities deep) and connect that stuff with roads.

Why not play something like this:
(Just an example)

2 Cities at the Coast of Canada
4 Cities at the Great Lakes
5 Cities in the region of the 13 Colonies.
2 Cities in the region of Florida.
2 Cities in the Gulf of Mexico
5 Cities along Mississippi and Missouri
2 Cities on the Caribean Isles
3 Cities in Central America
5 Cities at the Coast in Southern America
4 Cities along the Amazonas
1 City for the Panama Canal
5 Cities on the East Coast around California
3 Cities on the West Coast in Peru Region
...

Again, this is just an example. Play whatever style is fun to you.
But why do you create the restriction to you that they need to be "all together".

 

[raystuttgart]

These are old screenshot of one of my games about 6 years ago in the days of RaR.
(My empires today have become bigger as in my beginning times in RaR though.)

The Screenshot are from early midgame only as well. (Year 1601)
So it is still in the "expansion phase" for midgame before "consolidation phase" in endgame.

If I remember correctly I had conquered only 2 other European empires at that point of time in the game.
So there were still 5 other European empires to conquer and integrate as well - thus also expanding my empire.

The map I played in those Screenshots is "Two Continents".
As I said, it is by far the most overpowered map in the mod and allows massive empires.

Comment:
As you can see it still has e.g. my old "Railroads" in those screenshots. The feature was replaced / removed in later RaR releases.
But once I create my full "private version" I will put it in again because it is one of my top 10 features that never made it into public RaR / WTP releases.

 

[raystuttgart]

Actually recently I sometimes felt tempted to start a new game of Civ4Col with my private modmod of WTP.
But somehow I can not enjoy it. The fact that I know how much potential has still not been realized destroys all fun in playing for me.

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That is actually the curse of a modder playing his own mod.
It is never as perfect as you want it. You always know how much better it could be.

Thus playing the mod is alway a painful reminder of features or improvement missing that you would be able to implement.
Once you have seen paradise (even if it is just in your dreams or concepts) earth (the mod without it) is simply not good enough anymore.

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One day I will start modding myself again and then implement at least the most important features I still need to really enjoy playing it.
And then maybe I will also start a new game with "ray's private WTP modmod" again and create such a massive empire once more.

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However at the moment I will continue to take my break and play a few other games I never had enough time to play.
(While I was modding WTP I did not have time to play any game at all other than testing a few hours a week my new features for WTP.)

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Until then, enjoy modding and playing this game - hopefully with our mod WTP.
I am also looking forward to see all the great stuff the other modders will create.

 

[mastrude]

That is actually the curse of a modder playing his own mod.
It is never as perfect as you want it. You always know how much better it could be.

I understand that completely.

 

[2000AD]

For the 'Trade [x] thousand of [good]' quests, is there anywhere that progress towards them is tracked so I can easily see how far along each one I am?

 

[raystuttgart]

For the 'Trade [x] thousand of [good]' quests, is there anywhere that progress towards them is tracked so I can easily see how far along each one I am?

The progress of the "Trade Quests" is currently not visualized for the player. (The variables are stored in DLL of course and accessible to Python.)
Any modder who knows a bit of programming and Civ4Col modding in general could expand and improve it though.

The complete Python Event System (of which the "Trade Quests" are just a subset) really has lots of unused potential.
It is a pitty that there are so few modders interested to give it a try and create further quests and events.

----

Like always it is a matter of time and motivation.
A lot can still be improved if modders are motivated to do so.

 

[PH2]

What happens if you complete a trade quest? Now that I think about it, I've never successfully completed one that I know of, even for a resource that I alone control (like gold). Perhaps I'm not sending enough within the time frame they give me but what happens when you are successful?

 

[mastrude]

WtP seems to be a moderately complex game... Does anyone know of a good tutorial for it?

Also is there a way to access coordinates during a game?

 

[raystuttgart]

Also is there a way to access coordinates during a game?

Yes, activate "the modder cheat console" that comes with WTP. (Check the .ini)
And then ingame use "Mouse Over" + Shift-Key: It will tell you the coordinates.

 

[mastrude]

Yes, activate "the modder cheat console" that comes with WTP. (Check the .ini)
And then ingame use "Mouse Over" + Shift-Key: It will tell you the coordinates.

Thank you Ray.

 

[mastrude]

Yes, activate "the modder cheat console" that comes with WTP. (Check the .ini)
And then ingame use "Mouse Over" + Shift-Key: It will tell you the coordinates.

My copy of WethePeople.ini in the mod folder under WtP doesn't have a line mentioning "Modder Cheat Console". Would adding a line ModderCheatConsole=1 do the trick?

[edit] Nope, that line didn't do it. Didn't seem to be recognized.

 

[mastrude]

I think the modpack is extremely good. It fulfills the promise that TAC made to truly realize the promise of the original game.

 

[raystuttgart]

@mastrude

For the "Modder's Cheats" please read here.
(I posted that stuff again just yesterday.)

All of that stuff has become common knowledge for us "old modders".
We often forget though that we should regularly teach it to the "new modders".

By the way:
A lot of that information can be found by google searches as well.
(It should easily find relevant threads, wikis, ... we old modders created in the old times.)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

My copy of WethePeople.ini in the mod folder under WtP doesn't have a line mentioning "Modder Cheat Console". Would adding a line ModderCheatConsole=1 do the trick?

[edit] Nope, that line didn't do it. Didn't seem to be recognized.

Ray explained here
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...modders-tips-and-tricks.673580/#post-16166523
how to enable the cheatconsole.

Edit: Ray´ed again... For someone whocontinually informs about his absences from modding Ray is faster than me in answering far too often...