YnAMP - Larger Map, TSL, Continents++ (beta) 1.0.7

[Timigne]

find those lines in "modules/maps/greatest-earth-map/greatest-earth-map.js"

    startPositions = assignTSL();
    //startPositions = assignStartPositions(iNumPlayers1, iNumPlayers2, westContinent, eastContinent, iStartSectorRows, iStartSectorCols, startSectors);

invert the comment (//) like that:

    //startPositions = assignTSL();
    startPositions = assignStartPositions(iNumPlayers1, iNumPlayers2, westContinent, eastContinent, iStartSectorRows, iStartSectorCols, startSectors);

Thank you, but for some reason I always spawn at the same place when I create a game. Is there something I have to do to make it random ?

 

[Benualdo]

Hi,

First of all, thanks for your mod! I've been a huge fan of Earth maps since Civilization 1, and I mostly play on them when playing solo.

May I ask what you used to edit the map, do you already have a tool to edit Civilization VII tiles?

Years ago, I had made a map editor for Humankind, and I was wondering if a Civ VII version of such a tool could be useful—for example, for tagging continents, changing resources, etc.

Thanks.

EDIT: I could not resist and started programming it. I created a separate thread here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unofficial-map-editor-wip.695900/

 

[CAB]

Not sure if there is something going on with my game but I only seem able to add eight civs, the last two simply never get added to the game if I select them.

 

[historix69]

I follow GEM and YNAMP since Civ 4.

Both Civ 4 and Civ 5 use only one tile per city which makes it easier to create an immersive playable Earth map. No problems with 1-tile-island-cities who can work sea resources.
In both Civ 6 (with districts) and Civ 7 (with towns) cities require lots of additional neighbouring land tiles to work. This is a huge problem for small 1-tile-islands (eg Polynesia) as well as slightly bigger island groups like Great Britain and Japan or peninsulas like Singapore, Italy, Korea, ...
Compared to Civ 4 and 5 the Earth map would have to be significantly upscaled for Civ 6 and 7 to give each city enough space and allow a similar immersive play as with Civ4 and 5 .

Earth has a surface of ca 510,000,000 km² with ca 70% water and ca 30% land. (Due to the definition of the "meter" the equator has a length of ca 40,000 km.)
The standard Giant Earth Map features 180 x 94 = 16.920 tiles which corresponds to ca 30,000 km² per tile.
The metropolitan areas of the huge cities like New York City or Tokyo have a size of ca 12,000 and 13,450 km², so on a scale of 30,000 km² per tile a single tile would correspond to 2-3 metropolitan areas per tile.
I know that landmasses are significantly upscaled in GEM but that is not enough. The scale works fine for 1-tile-cities but not for several-tiles-cities in mentioned small regions.

How are the chances to run a massively (4 - 10 times) bigger Earth map in Civ 7 (PC) to have detailed local geography for each city?
Are there experiences how much RAM and VRAM usage increase with number of civilizations and world size?
Is there a map editor for Civ 7 as there was for Civ 4/5/6?

 

[SlightlyMad]

I just noticed there appear to be no coastal resources in my greatest earth map game, although I do see them in your screen shots. Maybe my starting area is just very unlucky, or could this be some sort of incompatibility issue?

 

[Lebanan]

I just noticed there appear to be no coastal resources in my greatest earth map game, although I do see them in your screen shots. Maybe my starting area is just very unlucky, or could this be some sort of incompatibility issue?

Do you mean none at all? Or just next to the capital? They do seem not that common, more often next to the islands moreso than in continental waters (might be just my luck tho)

 

[SlightlyMad]

Do you mean none at all? Or just next to the capital? They do seem not that common, more often next to the islands moreso than in continental waters (might be just my luck tho)

There were at the very least none around the whole coast of Africa or the Arabian Penninsula, as well as all the surrounding seas.

 

[Gedemon]

Gedemon updated YnAMP - Larger Map, TSL, Continents++ (alpha) with a new update entry:

Terrain conversion

- add to import map: terrain types, biomes

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Gedemon]

@ariel552 what's your issue exactly with capital cities ?

the TSL seems to work fine on my end for Spain and USA, but it's possible that the AI moves its unit before settling.

Hi, first of all - I love the mod. But some of the islands belonging to distant lands sometimes are accessible in the antiquity age, as seen here (yes, it's the start of exploration - first turn tho, as can be seen) - Ashoka was able to settle 3 towns there, as he had a coastal tiles tunnel to them.

View attachment 720795

The script didn't use brute force for ocean separation as in the vanilla script, instead it lower the "height" value of plots in those regions, making them more likely to be coastal or ocean than land (this is what reduces the blocky aspect of the map)

In most generation, there is an ocean separation, but it's not impossible that coastal tiles are placed and allow reaching the distant land.

Not sure if it's easy to solve, I've put it in my "to do" (maybe Firaxis will release more "organic" map script before that)

I'm actually ok with those, as well as in Africa, as Africa was a big part of the age of exploration as well so it makes sense, and nobody starts over there now. The ones I was seeing were in the eastern part of Africa, as well as the middle east. I started as Egypt and there was chocolate at my capital. I also had some tea in the south of Italy. I was able to hack a fix actually by going into the map script and just changing this line:

to:

That forces the western hemisphere to be the new world from what I can tell. Then I can just change it to 0 if I want to start in the Americas.

It looks like there's supposed to be some auto-detection happening but it seems to not be working. I suspect it's a simple fix, but if it's not it might make sense to have two versions of the map, one for each starting hemisphere.

The map script doesn't change the resource code, neither the position it's called in

the east-west selection is based on human player's starting location, it's also vanilla code (if you spawn in Americas, then the Old World is the distant land, if you spawn in the Old World then the Americas are the distant lands)

I've added a "debugging" section in the mod's download page, that could help see the issue, I'd like to know if those resources are on distant land or homeland tiles.

Thank you, but for some reason I always spawn at the same place when I create a game. Is there something I have to do to make it random ?

then the game may think that's the best position, the mod doesn't change the placement logic for non-TSL start.

Hi,

First of all, thanks for your mod! I've been a huge fan of Earth maps since Civilization 1, and I mostly play on them when playing solo.

May I ask what you used to edit the map, do you already have a tool to edit Civilization VII tiles?

Years ago, I had made a map editor for Humankind, and I was wondering if a Civ VII version of such a tool could be useful—for example, for tagging continents, changing resources, etc.

Thanks.

EDIT: I could not resist and started programming it. I created a separate thread here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unofficial-map-editor-wip.695900/

I wasn't expecting something like that this fast !

I used your tool for HK, thank you very much for it, and if/when elevation and rivers placement are possible, it would save me a lot of time if it could export the HK map to a table format similar to the one used in civ6 (or civ7, a new format will be needed, but I should be able to import both in YnAMP), the other day I was pondering if I should write a plugin for HK or try to edit your tool's code

ping me in your thread if you have any question

Not sure if there is something going on with my game but I only seem able to add eight civs, the last two simply never get added to the game if I select them.

I have the impression there is a bug in the game's code that don't add civ above the default value of the map (which is 8), even if it allows a max of 10.

Meaning you'd have to change the <DefaultValue> in the <MapSizes> table (in "\ynamp\modules\config\config.xml")

I didn't change it by default, as there have been issue reported in relation to number of beliefs/religions when the number is >8 IIRC

I follow GEM and YNAMP since Civ 4.

Both Civ 4 and Civ 5 use only one tile per city which makes it easier to create an immersive playable Earth map. No problems with 1-tile-island-cities who can work sea resources.
In both Civ 6 (with districts) and Civ 7 (with towns) cities require lots of additional neighbouring land tiles to work. This is a huge problem for small 1-tile-islands (eg Polynesia) as well as slightly bigger island groups like Great Britain and Japan or peninsulas like Singapore, Italy, Korea, ...
Compared to Civ 4 and 5 the Earth map would have to be significantly upscaled for Civ 6 and 7 to give each city enough space and allow a similar immersive play as with Civ4 and 5 .

Earth has a surface of ca 510,000,000 km² with ca 70% water and ca 30% land. (Due to the definition of the "meter" the equator has a length of ca 40,000 km.)
The standard Giant Earth Map features 180 x 94 = 16.920 tiles which corresponds to ca 30,000 km² per tile.
The metropolitan areas of the huge cities like New York City or Tokyo have a size of ca 12,000 and 13,450 km², so on a scale of 30,000 km² per tile a single tile would correspond to 2-3 metropolitan areas per tile.
I know that landmasses are significantly upscaled in GEM but that is not enough. The scale works fine for 1-tile-cities but not for several-tiles-cities in mentioned small regions.

How are the chances to run a massively (4 - 10 times) bigger Earth map in Civ 7 (PC) to have detailed local geography for each city?
Are there experiences how much RAM and VRAM usage increase with number of civilizations and world size?
Is there a map editor for Civ 7 as there was for Civ 4/5/6?

ATM 128x128 seems to be the max (haven't tested in height, but when width >128 the tiles after x = 127 have no graphic terrain rendered)

230*116 is loading (with the above issue), didn't test the limit, but I was very far from my RAM or VRAM limit. (in civ6 VRAM was a limit at the beginning, but later map size limit was hardcoded more VRAM didn't help to load bigger map than 200x104)

I just noticed there appear to be no coastal resources in my greatest earth map game, although I do see them in your screen shots. Maybe my starting area is just very unlucky, or could this be some sort of incompatibility issue?

Bad luck I'd say. Or more precisely no additional luck for starting positions with TSL I suppose.

The mod still use the game's code for resources, in the same order as the original scripts.

"assignStartPositions" is called after resources, but there is a "startSectors" called before, and I've not looked to closely at the assignStartPositions file yet (I have PTSD whenever I see that file name from civ5 and civ6 times)

I'll have to check how resources are balanced around starting positions at some point.

 

[Gedemon]

trying to see if we can somehow hack elevation using feature placement code, which is

                 const featureParam = {
                    Feature: featIdx,
                    Direction: -1,
                    Elevation: 0
                };
                TerrainBuilder.setFeatureType(iX, iY, featureParam);

now, placing a forest on each "hill" with elevation set to "2"...

...I think I've found a solution to the global water rising issue...

Spoiler :

time to test a few things, see if it can be actually used...

 

[SlightlyMad]

Bad luck I'd say. Or more precisely no additional luck for starting positions with TSL I suppose.

The mod still use the game's code for resources, in the same order as the original scripts.

I think you're right, I started up a game as Rome with your new script (btw it looks AMAZING so far), and the entire Mediterranean as well as the western cost of Europe have a single fish resource (on a coastal tile next to a deep ocean tile at the "heel" of Italy). Since there's 1 it's clearly "working" but there must be something about the terrain that's blocking them from spawning in most cases, since on your continents++ and the base game map scripts, pretty much any coastal city generally has 1-2 coastal resources.

The old/new detection seems to be working as well, at least in this game. I still see new world resources spawning in western Europe & Africa, but clearly that's a bug in the base game that the resource spawning isn't handling the off-center configuration of old/new in this map. Hopefully Firaxis can fix that at some point.

Great work, and thank you for your continued efforts! I have been playing almost all of my games exclusively on your maps for quite a long time now

 

[AriochIV]

You've done a great job, thanks. I've only played Continents++ on Large, but it's a HUGE improvement.

Though the larger map size does make the terribly slow naval units even worse, but I'll take it...

 

[Nisylro]

With the latest 'terrain' update, starting with Rome always gives no rivers in Italy (6 starts = 0), so 0 happiness at the start (tough...)

EDIT : One time it was really cool, there was a volcano 2 tiles below the tile of Rome, but the other times, never.

 

[historix69]

...

ATM 128x128 seems to be the max (haven't tested in height, but when width >128 the tiles after x = 127 have no graphic terrain rendered)

230*116 is loading (with the above issue), didn't test the limit, but I was very far from my RAM or VRAM limit. (in civ6 VRAM was a limit at the beginning, but later map size limit was hardcoded more VRAM didn't help to load bigger map than 200x104)

...

Don't want to derail this thread, but ...
I have the impression that Firaxis Civ series with the ongoing focus on smaller and more detailed maps is no longer the right base for a turn based Civ-like Global Strategy Game on a realistic Earth Map.

I want to remind of the upcomming game "Gilded Destiny": They feature a 1.6 million hexes globe.

If the globe in "Gilded Destiny" works fine, maybe the Civ modding community should consider to port (mod) "Civilization" to the "Gilded Destiny" engine instead of fighting with the map size restrictions imposed by each new Civ iteration?

 

[Kazimierz Wielk]

Loving the map so far. I ran into a little "glitch" with the TSL Earth. I'm assuming wonders are randomly placed. Well, Thera got placed between the Iberian Peninsula and Africa, blocking access to the Atlantic Ocean.

 

[Gedemon]

With the latest 'terrain' update, starting with Rome always gives no rivers in Italy (6 starts = 0), so 0 happiness at the start (tough...)

EDIT : One time it was really cool, there was a volcano 2 tiles below the tile of Rome, but the other times, never.

we can't draw rivers ATM, but we can change the rainfall map, and so at least the rivers starting position, I'm testing that on the tile NE of Rome TSL, if it work could then use it to help balance starting positions.

real world volcano position should be in at some point.

Loving the map so far. I ran into a little "glitch" with the TSL Earth. I'm assuming wonders are randomly placed. Well, Thera got placed between the Iberian Peninsula and Africa, blocking access to the Atlantic Ocean. View attachment 721705

I'll also add real positions to NW at some point.

 

[Sytharin]

Update:

- bugfix : do not override the "homeland" tag with the "distantland" tag when placing islands on the Continents++ script
- adjust map size effect on height scaling, so that "Massive" maps are a bit more "Continents" than "Archipelagos"

View attachment 719066 View attachment 719067

Let me know if there are still issues

Been using Massive and Continents++ on several playthroughs, but still running into extremely minimal tundra and grasslands latitudes as above in the pictures. It also seems incredibly unlikely that any of those latitudes are 'fertile', lacking rivers/navigable rivers/bogs. I've also noticed some very odd issues with player placement. Often, it will place one civ on the main blob continent, and shove the other 4 onto islands in very poor settlement areas. I wonder if the map scaling formula itself may be messing with civ starting area distance? Haven't found a way to better it yet in the code

 

[Zaeron]

Hi!

First off, thank you for this mod. The maps feel so much better than the default maps. Below are some pain points I've noticed after generating 20-30 starts over the last couple days.

The most obvious problem is that on map sizes below Massive, there seems to be a really bad tendency to cluster civs tightly together. I attached some examples of Huge maps that still have 3 civs on the same screen at start.

The second problem - illustrated in the second picture with Ibn Battusa- is that there is a tendency to cram civs onto islands very near the poles, even if they're very near other civs and honestly just not great locations to put a civ. Like, this guy got absolutely railed by me being able to just slam down settlers all along that coast.

I could understand if the island was very isolated but like, he's within shouting distance of my capital. All the downsides of starting on an island, no payoffs.

The third pic is another example of same super close start problem - and you can see how much unused real estate is on this map, too. You can also see in the map that Harriet Tubman got absolutely railed by her start location. If she had started on the coast rather than the island chain south, she would have had an amazing start. But instead for some reason the same placement that put me and another dude on the exact same screen decided she needed to be seventeen miles from the nearest anything.

The worst problem with these clustered starts is that it makes trade basically impossible - you end up crowded by your nearest neighbor and almost certainly go to war, and then the other 3 civs are all clustered on the other side of the entire continent. So there's no one to trade with unless you very deliberately stretch your cities wayyyyy out to try to get across the continent.

Finally, there are some really unfortunate capital placements that I've seen. Real estate in your capital is extremely important, but I've seen spawns semi-regularly that have insanely high ratios of like, water and mountain in a 3 radius around the settler placement. These are basically unplayable due to the requirement that districts be contiguous. Having a capital that literally has 8 mountain tiles and 8 coast tiles and 4 resource tiles borders on literally unplayable without moving 3-4 steps. And since we no longer get a warrior to scout with at game start, you're basically just guessing completely blind if you do try to move around. It's... bad.

Sorry I don't have any pictures on hand of this but it's BAD when it happens.

 

[LilBudyWizer]

Just a suggestion but include version information in the download. ModInfo says 1 for what I have and 1 for what I just downloaded. They're clearly not the same version though since one has a README.md file and the other doesn't. Including the change mod would be nice too, but need some way to tell one version from another examining the ZIP file.

 

[chrisgatt7]

I'm having trouble extracting the file properly, I do NOT get the Modules and the YNAPM.DEP