1.18 Civilizations - Brainstorming

[DImensiondog]

Australia: Spawn 1901

I think they should spawn 1788 if they were to spawn, gives them more time.

UHV 1: Tame the Outback -- Settle all (or X% of if the desert can't be settled) of modern Australia, New Zealand, and Tasmania and connect every city in mainland Australia to the capital by road by 1975

Not New Zealand as its not Australian territory and never has been, if you are referring to its invitation to join Australia then why not also Samoa which was also offered. If it has the 1788 start date then by 1901. Plus wont Britain settle much of Australia by 1901.

UHV 2: Gunfire Breakfast -- Gift 25 industrial era or later units to the U.K. by 1950. Gift 50 industrial era or later units to the U.S. by 2000

I like the premise but as an Australian, i've never heard of gunfire breakfast. Just name it ANZACS.

UHV 3: The Golden Logie -- Build the Olympics, the Sydney Opera House, and have one city with 10,000 culture by 2000.
Logic: The Logies are Australian Television Awards, and the Golden Logie is given to the most popular television personality in Australia. Since this would be the cultural hub, it's a clever play on an Australian cultural object. The objective is based on Australian TV culture's worldwide acclaim, the Sydney Opera House's iconic status, and Sydney's place as host of the 2000 Olympic Games. This objective will make objectives 1 and 2 more difficult by forcing Australia's capital to focus on culture.

Get a different UHV, bluey has nearly as many views. We're not nearly a worldwide cultural icon many other countries have more cultural influence. Additionally 7 countries have hosted more olympics than us. Finally no one city is culturally dominant over Australia so have one city with 10,000 culture is kinda weird. Perhaps we need something to represent the

UU: Digger -- Replaces the Infantry and comes with +25% city defense built-in. This will help Australia to defend itself while it ships all its military off to Britain and America.

I'd have gone for amphibious and some attack bonus, to reference Gallipoli, but mechanically that is a good idea.

I like a few of your ideas but others Im not a fan of. I do really like the mechanic of the second UHV. Im not sure Australia needs to be needs to be in the game, I don't think its influential enough globally to be in a Rhyes and Fall mod. That being said there are a few civs currently in the mod that don't make that cut either.

 

[TwoF]

Im not sure Australia needs to be needs to be in the game, I don't think its influential enough globally to be in a Rhyes and Fall mod. That being said there are a few civs currently in the mod that don't make that cut either.

With your last statement, you refuted the importance of the previous ones.
Many countries that are breakaway colonies are not so important to world history as to pay attention to them. But I think it's best to have Australia on the map at some point to make sure Australia is populated and I don't have to rely on England or the Netherlands for that.

 

[Dracosolon]

Interesting but per the OP this is the wrong thread for additional civs.

 

[Leoreth]

The reason why late game civilizations are not in scope for 1.18 is that they do not have an impact on most of the game. Like you mention, they mostly fill areas of the map that see little interaction. The goal for 1.18 is to get interactions between civilizations right, which these civilizations do not depend on.

 

[Dracosolon]

Inspired by Merijn's 2nd UU & UB mod, I've been keeping a similar "what if all civs had two UU and two UB" list of ideas. I've expanded it to the civs listed in the OP. Most of these ideas originated from posts and mods by other people so I've tried to credit them for the names or concepts, but most of the actual effects have been revised by me. Dunno if this is of much interest as a whole but some entries might be of use (attached is a file with every civ including existing ones).

CIVILIZATION​	UNIQUE​	REPLACEMENT​	DETAILS​	CREDITS​
ASSYRIA​	​	​	​	​
​	Siege Tower​	Catapult​	Available at Leverage, -1 Strength, +25 % city attack​	Civ V​
​	Sapper​	Skirmisher​	Available at Construction, -1 Strength, +25 % city attack, collateral damages (40% instead of 25%)​	Tarcisio​
​	Garden​	Fountain​	Available at Construction, cheaper, +2 Culture​	Steb​
​	Resettlement Camp​	Jail​	Available at Bloomery, cheaper, +25% city growth, 1 free Specialist​	Steb​
NUBIA​	​	​	​	​
​	Medjay​	Archer​	+1 first strike, Desert Adaptation​	various​
​	Nobatian Swordsman​	Heavy Swordsman​	+25 % vs Heavy Cavalry & Light Cavalry, Desert Adaptation​	JFD​
​	Deffufas​	Cemetary​	+2 Production, +20% city defense​	1SDANi​
​	Cenobium​	Post Office​	Available at Ethics, +2 Culture, 1 Priest slot​	JFD​
HITTITES​	​	​	​	​
​	Huluganni​	Chariot​	+1 Strength​	various​
​	Meshedi​	Spearman​	+50% Hill strength, +25% city defense​	History Rewritten​
​	Bloomery​	Forge​	Available at Bloomery, double production speed with Iron, +10% Production with Iron​	Krieger-FS​
​	Lion’s Gate​	Wall​	+2 Culture, +25% military unit production​	Civ V​
CELTS​	​	​	​	​
​	Gaesatae​	Swordsman​	+25% city attack (instead of +10%), Guerilla II​	BarbarianX​
​	Cidainh​	Chariot​	Gets defensive bonus, causes collateral damages (30%)​	various​
​	Dun​	Wall​	Cheaper, +2 Culture, free Woodsman I for all land units​	​
​	Ceilidh Hall​	Theater​	+1 Happiness, 1 free Artist​	Civ V​
KUSHANS​	​	​	​	​
​	Asvaka​	Horseman​	Doesn’t require Copper or Iron, Mobility​	Leoreth​
​	Yabgu Guard​	Horse Archer​	Mobility, Shock​	Ani Taneen​
​	Gandhara School​	Library​	+25% Production of religious buildings, +1 Happiness per non-state religion​	1SDANi​
​	Statue​	Monument​	+1 trade route, +20% Culture​	​
TOLTECS​	​	​	​	​
​	Artisan​	Worker​	Adds Culture in nearest city by finishing improvements, can join city as Artist (1 max)​	Steb​
​	Coyote Warrior​	Light Swordsman​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, City Raider I​	​
​	Temazcal​	Bath​	Available at Construction, doesn’t require Fountain, no Unhealthiness from Jungle​	Steb​
​	Obsidian Workshop​	Forge​	Available at Bloomery, +10% Commerce and Production with Obsidian​	​
VIETNAM​	​	​	​	​
​	Tay Pháo​	Arquebusier​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, causes collateral damage (50%)​	History Rewritten​
​	Viet Cong​	Infantry​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, cheaper, Woodsman I, Amphibious​	various​
​	Dinh​	Estate​	1 free Specialist, free City Garrison I for military units​	History Rewritten​
​	Thành​	Castle​	25% Culture, +10% military production per +20% Culture slider​	Civ VI​
BURMA​	​	​	​	​
​	Arambai​	Horse Archer​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, receives defensive bonuses, Mobility​	Merijn​
​	Kyundaw​	Heavy Swordsman​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, +25% Jungle % Rainforest strength, Medic I​	Sukritact​
​	Paya​	Library​	1 free Specialist, +25% Production of religious buildings, 1 Artist slot​	Merijn​
​	Martial School​	Barracks​	+2 Culture, +25% Production of military units​	EmeraldRange​
JAVANESE​	​	​	Candi​	​
​	Wirobrojo​	Rifleman​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, +1 Strength, Amphibious​	History Rewritten​
​	Padewakang​	Heavy Galley​	+2 first strikes, +1 Movement​	History Rewritten​
​	Kampung​	Harbor​	+10% Food​	Civ VI​
KIEVAN RUS​	​	​	​	​
​	Druzhina​	Heavy Spearman​	+50% vs Light Cavalry​	various​
​	Boyar​	Lancer​	No city strength malus, receives defensive bonuses, +25% Open Terrain strength​	​
​	Veche​	Courthouse​	Available at Law, +1 Merchant slot​	various​
​	Pogost​	Post Office​	Available at Currency, +1 trade route, -25% maintenance​	JFD​
MALAYS​	​	​	Djong​	​
​	Pesilat​	Swordsman​	Can enter Jungle & Rainforest, 30% withdrawal chances, Amphibious​	various​
​	Gudang​	Lighthouse​	+10% Food​	History Rewritten​
​	Tin Mint​	Bank​	Available at Currency, +2 Production​	​
SWAHILI​	​	​	​	​
​	Dhow​	Cog​	Generates 2 Gold when stationed in foreign cities (1 max per city)​	various​
​	Shujaa​	Skirmisher​	+1 Strength, Amphibious​	History Rewritten​
​	Ziara​	Cemetary​	+1 trade route​	Merijn​
​	Coral Port​	Wharf​	+5% Commerce, +5% Commerce per Culture level​	More Civilizations​
SWEDEN​	​	​	​	​
​	Karolin​	Musketeer​	Available at Combined Arms, March, Drill I​	various​
​	Hakkapeliitta​	Pistolier​	March, Disengage I​	Civ V​
​	Riksbank​	Bank​	+25% GPP​	various​
​	Soldattorp​	Barracks​	-25% city maintenance, free Morale promotion for Melee and Gunpowder units​	Merijn​

 

[mccp77]

I think they should spawn 1788 if they were to spawn, gives them more time.

Not New Zealand as its not Australian territory and never has been, if you are referring to its invitation to join Australia then why not also Samoa which was also offered. If it has the 1788 start date then by 1901. Plus wont Britain settle much of Australia by 1901.

I like the premise but as an Australian, i've never heard of gunfire breakfast. Just name it ANZACS.

Get a different UHV, bluey has nearly as many views. We're not nearly a worldwide cultural icon many other countries have more cultural influence. Additionally 7 countries have hosted more olympics than us. Finally no one city is culturally dominant over Australia so have one city with 10,000 culture is kinda weird. Perhaps we need something to represent the

I'd have gone for amphibious and some attack bonus, to reference Gallipoli, but mechanically that is a good idea.

I like a few of your ideas but others Im not a fan of. I do really like the mechanic of the second UHV. Im not sure Australia needs to be needs to be in the game, I don't think its influential enough globally to be in a Rhyes and Fall mod. That being said there are a few civs currently in the mod that don't make that cut either.

1788 is historically unrealistic. I admittedly only play on epic speed, but at that speed later start dates are not an issue. I may thus have a warped view of the value of modern civs because of the speed that I play at.

I don't care about the UHVs -- I may have tried to be too clever by half. And the culture UHV could be replaced.

New Zealand, New Guinea, and yes, maybe even Fiji should be included. The civ should cover modern Australia's sphere of influence in Oceania for game play reasons in the same way that Argentina gets the whole Southern Cone.

Australia needs to be in the game because it affects interactions among the 3 twentieth century big dogs: Britain, America, and Russia. It allows the British empire to accurately decline/(maybe) collapse which it never does because of the lack of attention to modern civs/the modern era in game. It also provides naval ad air units to America and Britain, strengthening Britain until 1945 then strengthening America. This affects Russia because America post-1950 in my games never has more than half as many units as Russia which makes the world seem quite unipolar when America and Russia should be more like peers.

I understand Leoreth has his own priorities, and I respect that, but I think it would be a significant net positive addition in version 2.9 (joke, but later) when the twentieth century can get its turn for some attention.

 

[DImensiondog]

1788 is historically unrealistic.

1788, the year settlers landed in botany bay, yes its not independence but they had tons of autonomy due to their distance from Britain. In fact today is the anniversary of that event.

 

[Vulpeo]

I'm not sure if this was suggested already but here's a plan for how the Kyivans and Muscovites would've worked in 1.18 version. In 882 the Kyivans emerge, founding Kyiv and then being given two more settlers to expand, also having Novgorod emerge as an independent city-state in 862. Volga Bulgaria would also exist as Kazan independent city-state to the east, given enough military strength because now every time I see them being conquered by the Spanish or French as they send their units to explore Eastern Europe. Then the Mongol Horde arrives in around 1235 and one of the historical goals for Kyivans would be to never lose a city to the Mongols. However the AI Kyivans are practically doomed to lose all the time, and here I'd also suggest the Mongols to attempt to invade Poland with smaller forces so that the Poles could repell an invasion. Then Golden Horde separates from the Mongol Empire in 1260 as the separate nation from the cities in Eastern Europe and Kazakhstan captured by the Mongols which I believe could also be playable. Then Muscovy arises in 1380 as an independent nation, founding Moscow and given enough forces to destroy Golden Horde and capture Novgorod. Poland would also be able to exploit the weakening of the Golden Horde to gain control over Kyiv and the Ottomans would expand into Crimea from the south. Then the usual Russian gameplay happens with the same historical goals, expanding and building the Russian Empire. As soon as Russia would decide to choose Communism several cities in Siberia and in the Southern Russia will break away as independent nations having a weak military strength represeting the White Forces, allowing a player or an AI controlling the Central Asia and Turkestan to regain control over them very easily with no infrastructure loss in the cities upon reconquest. Then as soon as Russia abandons Communism to any other form of government along with the cities renaming back the Turks would emerge as an independent nation of Uzbekistan in case if any of their core cities (Merv, Samarkand and Orduqent) were controlled by the Russians, the Golden Horde would emerge as an independent nation of Kazakhstan establishing itself on the territories of modern day Kazakhstan and the Kyivans would emerge as an independent nation of Ukraine controlling Kyiv and other modern day Ukraine territories in case if any of them are controlled by the Russians by that moment.

 

[Dracosolon]

Currently the Golden Horde is a dynamic name for Russia vassalized by Mongolia, but that wouldn't be possible if Russia spawns as Muscovy, unless Russia starts as the Golden Horde, as a Mongol vassal, which seems... not a great fit from what little I know? And Kievan Rus's territory would be too small to deserve that dynamic name. Golden Horde seems too short-lived and too conditional to be properly represented as something distinct from Mongolia, it seems to me.

 

[Vulpeo]

Currently the Golden Horde is a dynamic name for Russia vassalized by Mongolia, but that wouldn't be possible if Russia spawns as Muscovy, unless Russia starts as the Golden Horde, as a Mongol vassal, which seems... not a great fit from what little I know? And Kievan Rus's territory would be too small to deserve that dynamic name. Golden Horde seems too short-lived and too conditional to be properly represented as something distinct from Mongolia, it seems to me.

I offered to introduce Golden Horde as a precursor to introducing Kazakhstan in the late game so that the one comes from another and Kazakhstan doesn't just "come out of nowhere". Also I believe Golden Horde would've played a huge role in the game in cases if it manages to survive and not collapse, with the Golden Horde UHV being like "conquer much of Eastern Europe" by some year. Historically Golden Horde was also rather impactful for Eastern Europe, acting independently from Karakorum since 1260 AD so I'd say Mongol Empire had even shorter life span than Golden Horde alone which lasted until 1502 AD.

 

[FishFishFish]

Perhaps the Civ should be called the "Kipchaks" in order to represent both the Kazakhs and Golden Horde time periods?

I am thinking it would be something similar to the Moors were they get pushed out of their core territory in Iberia and become based in the Maghreb, the Golden Horde should be pushed out of their core in Eastern Europe and become based in Kazakhstan. The Civ should then become the Kazakh Khanate which lasted until the 19th century.

 

[Vulpeo]

Perhaps the Civ should be called the "Kipchaks" in order to represent both the Kazakhs and Golden Horde time periods?

I am thinking it would be something similar to the Moors were they get pushed out of their core territory in Iberia and become based in the Maghreb, the Golden Horde should be pushed out of their core in Eastern Europe and become based in Kazakhstan. The Civ should then become the Kazakh Khanate which lasted until the 19th century.

Yeah that would definitely work as well. For Central Asia there could also be the Kalmyk migration and the Dzungar invasion of the Kazakh khanate as the barbarian nomadic units invading Kazakhstan and the North Caspian region

 

[Vulpeo]

Yeah that would definitely work as well. For Central Asia there could also be the Kalmyk migration and the Dzungar invasion of the Kazakh khanate as the barbarian nomadic units invading Kazakhstan and the North Caspian region

Though I'd doubt here that representing Kazakh khanate anything other than independent city states would work out considering it being more of a proto-state formation rather than a solid entity just like Mongolian khanates after the collapse of the Yuan Empire. By XVIII century the Kazakh lands had three state formations called "zhuzes" which accepted the Russian protectorate because of Dzungars and who later were forcibly annexed by the Russian Empire in 1820s-1840s.

 

[Vulpeo]

One more thing that I just thought about is possibly making the Modern Germans start from the Teutonic Order in Prussia and the Baltics, founding Berlin and moving their capital there by 1700 AD while also losing control over the Baltics to Sweden in XVI century. Would be very hard to implement on the current map but knowing that a larger map would be in development for 1.18 it could work I believe

 

[Leoreth]

1. this is off topic
2. I am not reading wall of text posts

 

[Vulpeo]

1. this is off topic
2. I am not reading wall of text posts

Mildly confused by such a response. I can delete it if this is an inappropriate format, where can I talk about it then if this thread is not about the suggestions for 1.18 which I believed it was? It is the only active thread about 1.18 version and I haven't seen any other one so far.

 

[Dracosolon]

This thread is for discussion the implementation of the specific set of civs listed in the first post of this thread (the reasoning as to why these civs and only these civs is explained in the quoted post). For the discussion of new civs, you want this thread:

What other Civs would you like to see added to DoC

In my opinion 1. Make the Celtic civilization playable, instead of just being a NPC. They should respawn as Ireland c. 1920. 2. Turkestan, led by Tamerlane. This would lead to a more realistic Central Asia, and give the Russian and Iranian civilizations more of a challenge. They could become...

forums.civfanatics.com

And for suggestions and wishlists in general, this one:

Suggestions and Requests

You have an idea on how to improve the modmod or add an interesting new feature to it? Then this is the right place for you! I intend to read and consider every idea here. The more detailed your suggestions are, the more likely it gets that I'll consider them. Images help to picture what...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[Vulpeo]

This thread is for discussion the implementation of the specific set of civs listed in the first post of this thread (the reasoning as to why these civs and only these civs is explained in the quoted post). For the discussion of new civs, you want this thread:

What other Civs would you like to see added to DoC

In my opinion 1. Make the Celtic civilization playable, instead of just being a NPC. They should respawn as Ireland c. 1920. 2. Turkestan, led by Tamerlane. This would lead to a more realistic Central Asia, and give the Russian and Iranian civilizations more of a challenge. They could become...

forums.civfanatics.com

And for suggestions and wishlists in general, this one:

Suggestions and Requests

You have an idea on how to improve the modmod or add an interesting new feature to it? Then this is the right place for you! I intend to read and consider every idea here. The more detailed your suggestions are, the more likely it gets that I'll consider them. Images help to picture what...

forums.civfanatics.com

Oh, now I see. Thank you for clarifying this.

 

[Dracosolon]

What about wonders? I think so far there are:

- Prambanan and Borobudur for Java,
- Shwedagon Paya for Burma,
- Saint Sophia's Cathedral for Kievan Rus',
- Nobel Prize for Sweden.

The proposed wonders spreadsheet also has:

- Pyramid of the Sun for the Toltecs/Teotihuacan,
- Petronas Towers for Malaysia.

If I got everything right that leaves Vietnam, the Kushans (Salsal Buddha is in the right region but it's a Hephtalite wonder a few centuries too late), the Swahili, Nubia, Assyria, the Hittites and the Celts without a wonder.

 

[brett0007]

What about wonders? I think so far there are:

- Prambanan and Borobudur for Java,
- Shwedagon Paya for Burma,
- Saint Sophia's Cathedral for Kievan Rus',
- Nobel Prize for Sweden.

The proposed wonders spreadsheet also has:

- Pyramid of the Sun for the Toltecs/Teotihuacan,
- Petronas Towers for Malaysia.

If I got everything right that leaves Vietnam, the Kushans (Salsal Buddha is in the right region but it's a Hephtalite wonder a few centuries too late), the Swahili, Nubia, Assyria, the Hittites and the Celts without a wonder.

The current consensus in the thread is that a kushan civ basically represents all the central iranian classical and early medieval states, in the same way turkic does for various medieval turkic states.


Possibe wonders include
Swahili: the Great Mosque of Kilwa, Husuni Kubwa, The Gereza Fort.
Nubia: Nubian pyramids, Faras cathederal, Church of Dongola
Assyria:Nimrud Ivories, Assyrian palace reliefs
Hittites:The lion gate, the great temple of hattusha
Celts:Coligny calendar, King arthur mythos.