17 Year old Black girl punched by White police officer for jaywalking

[ANDL33]

1) The officer clearly overreacted and responded with disproportionate force.

Ditto .

 

[Formaldehyde]

There is no such thing as "excessive force" against a resisting felon.

Simple assault is not a felony. And neither is jaywalking. The cop apparently lost control of the situation by being an idiot. Hopefully, the charges against both of them will be dropped by the DA.

There At least the way I see it. You can't cry "excessive force" if you're fighting against the police officers who are detaining you.

Many backward countries would agree with your opinion. Fortunately, this isn't one of them.

You can only cry it if you're being completely compliant, and you still get wrongfully injured.

Just ask Rodney King.

A police state is a totally different concept. We're talking here about upping the level of force cops may use in enforcing current laws, not about adding further laws that curtail freedoms.

No, a police state exists when the police can do whatever they please to someone who is "resisting" them. You know, the countries which you apparently wish to use as a model for proper police procedure.

 

[ColdClimate]

Exactly. He should get reprimanded. Then the law should change so that anyone else doing the same thing should not get reprimanded. Because it was obviously the right thing to do.

As long as you agree that what he did wasn't within the letter of the law.

As for the laws changing in that regard, I don't think you'll find much luck in Canada. China's pretty cool with that, maybe you should look into a move...

 

[Defiant47]

Simple assault is not a felony. And neither is jaywalking.

Many backward countries would agree with your opinion. Fortunately, this isn't one of them.

Yes, we should expect police officers to treat criminals nicely when they're resisting arrest.

Just ask Rodney King.

I don't see how this is relevant. If a subject resists arrest, then sufficient force should be used to make them comply. Any excess force is unneeded.

No, a police state exists when the police can do whatever they please to someone who is "resisting" them. You know, the countries which you apparently wish to use as a model for proper police procedure.

And how, pray tell, are police officers supposed to do their jobs when someone is resisting them?

If a police officer arrests you, then it doesn't matter if they are completely wrong in arresting you. Resisting arrest is wrong. And it deserves a higher level of force being leveled against you.

This isn't a magical fairy land where cops can just speak sweetly and criminals will all of a sudden be nicer and go along.

As long as you agree that what he did wasn't within the letter of the law.

As for the laws changing in that regard, I don't think you'll find much luck in Canada. China's pretty cool with that, maybe you should look into a move...

I have higher priorities than a marginal increase in the effectiveness of law enforcement authorities.

 

[ColdClimate]

I don't see how this is relevant. If a subject resists arrest, then sufficient force should be used to make them comply. Any excess force is unneeded.
.

But that's the point!!! You don't need to punch someone in the face to arrest them, and certainly not in this case!!!

EDIT:

I have higher priorities than a marginal increase in the effectiveness of law enforcement authorities.

then maybe it's best not to bring up your views on this in polite conversation

 

[PeteAtoms]

While I could see myself also getting seriously frustrated in the same position, I'd also like to believe we should expect more from officers of the law. They should be an example to the community, and often they aren't. This might be society's fault for having too high of an expectation of what is just a bunch of regular guys trying to pay their mortgage. But still...

 

[Defiant47]

But that's the point!!! You don't need to punch someone in the face to arrest them, and certainly not in this case!!!

Cops should be given a little bit of leeway. We shouldn't be following them all around with a camera and jumping at them "Ha! That was slightly more force used than was necessary!".

I believe the police officer in question was within this leeway.

 

[ColdClimate]

Cops should be given a little bit of leeway. We shouldn't be following them all around with a camera and jumping at them "Ha! That was slightly more force used than was necessary!".

I believe the police officer in question was within this leeway.

But you just said before....oh nevermind....

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yes, we should expect police officers to treat criminals nicely when they're resisting arrest.

You mean suspects to an offense which are typically handled by a citation instead of arrest?

I don't see how this is relevant. If a subject resists arrest, then sufficient force should be used to make them comply. Any excess force is unneeded.

That is certainly not what you are stating in this particular case. Did you see any amount of force at all required to make her comply to his demands after he struck her in the face? Why didn't he strike the other woman in the face as well? Think he should have for her "resisting" his incredibly poor technique to handcuff her?

And how, pray tell, are police officers supposed to do their jobs when someone is resisting them?

By using reasonable force and proper technique to subdue them?

If a police officer arrests you, then it doesn't matter if they are completely wrong in arresting you. Resisting arrest is wrong. And it deserves a higher level of force being leveled against you.

many sadistic cops would completely agree with you because that is typically their excuse to "get even" with "bad people".

This isn't a magical fairy land where cops can just speak sweetly and criminals will all of a sudden be nicer and go along.

Yet another absurd strawman?

 

[Defiant47]

But you just said before....oh nevermind....

We would reasonably give the police officer a certain degree of leeway in this matter.

Unfortunately, even if an action is deemed reasonable, legally it can be unlawful.

Get the distinction?

 

[Bei1052]

The girl in pink was a dumbass. It's really, really, really hard for me to feel bad for her. Why the hell would you get involved when a cop is trying to arrest someone?

 

[ColdClimate]

We would reasonably give the police officer a certain degree of leeway in this matter.

Unfortunately, even if an action is deemed reasonable, legally it can be unlawful.

Get the distinction?

Yep. Sure do.

Just remember that the 'leeway' line is a fuzzy one, and your line might not be where a certain police officer's might be. If he decides that you 'deserve' something, you might not be in a position to argue with him on that point. And there might not be cameras around to record the actual events.

 

[capslock]

But that's the point!!! You don't need to punch someone in the face to arrest them, and certainly not in this case!!!

EDIT:


then maybe it's best not to bring up your views on this in polite conversation

Well, clearly, asking them nicely was working very well. Have you ever had to restrain someone who was actively trying to resist? It takes at least as much force as a punch. There is no real delicate way to do it...

 

[ColdClimate]

Well, clearly, asking them nicely was working very well. Have you ever had to restrain someone who was actively trying to resist? It takes at least as much force as a punch. There is no real delicate way to do it...

Police go through a good deal of training so that they can restrain someone without punching or kicking them. THis officer should have used that knowledge.

 

[Defiant47]

You mean suspects to an offense which are typically handled by a citation instead of arrest?

That is certainly not what you are stating in this particular case. Did you see any amount of force at all required to make her comply to his demands after he struck her in the face? Why didn't he strike the other woman in the face as well? Think he should have for her "resisting" his incredibly poor technique to handcuff her?

By using reasonable force and proper technique to subdue them?

Actually I feel the reasonable force required would have been equivalent to or greater than that punch.

Really, what I see in this scenario is the way the force was displayed. If the cop had slammed her against the car with a damage greater than that of the punch, then there wouldn't be as great of an outrage over this.

I just fail to acknowledge the distinction.

You're right that the cop should maybe get more training in better subduing people resisting arrest. If it's possible to exert less force to achieve at the same goal, then that avenue should be pursued.

Many sadistic cops would completely agree with you because that is typically their excuse to "get even" with "bad people".

Strawman. Whether something would be abused by wrong people or not doesn't make that something unnecessary or to be avoided.

Yet another absurd strawman?

It was a throw-away line.

Yep. Sure do.

Just remember that the 'leeway' line is a fuzzy one, and your line might not be where a certain police officer's might be. If he decides that you 'deserve' something, you might not be in a position to argue with him on that point. And there might not be cameras around to record the actual events.

If I comply fully, as I should if under arrest, then I don't 'deserve' anything, and the cop would not be able to (rightfully) decide a great deal of force is deserved.

If I resist arrest, then I'd deserve what's coming.

Police go through a good deal of training so that they can restrain someone without punching or kicking them. THis officer should have used that knowledge.

They're not supermen, you know.

 

[ColdClimate]

If I comply fully, as I should if under arrest, then I don't 'deserve' anything, and the cop would not be able to (rightfully) decide a great deal of force is deserved.

If I resist arrest, then I'd deserve what's coming.

And if they decide you 'deserve it' anyhow, and there's no-one recording it, who are peple more liekly to beleive... Jus' sayin'....

ok, enough for me....have fun with this one, folks...

 

[Defiant47]

And if they decide you 'deserve it' anyhow, and there's no-one recording it, who are peple more liekly to beleive... Jus' sayin'....

Just saying what?

What if the police wrongfully decide that I deserve more force than I really deserve when I'm being fully compliant? You lack an argument.

I didn't imply that police should use whatever the hell level of force they want to against anybody whatsoever. I just said that there should be quite a bit of leeway in the force they exert against those who resist arrest.

 

[Ayn Rand]

There's a whole class of people out there who carry concealed weapons, who have disturbing mental illnesses, who routinely take drugs, who have records of criminal violence.

When someone steps out of a crowd and tries to grab a police officers arms and close him down, then he doesn't know where the situation is going or what category of individual he is dealing with.

However, he does know that he is dealing with an individual ready to initiate force against a uniformed officer to prevent an arrest of a third party. This could have ended in tragedy and I'm glad that the woman's friend/partner stepped in and had the sense to restrain her before some other nutcase got involved and it ended with shots fired.

 

[Ajidica]

Plus that girl was being an idiot, trying to [female dog]-talk a police officer so my verdict:
Cop overreacted, but considering the girl was being an idiot he was justified.

 

[Elrohir]

Yeah. He actually took a step backwards from the surprise that someone would actually defy his "authoritah".

Are we watching the same video? He clearly was pushed back ; his entire body moved. If he'd lost his balance, he very well might have hit his head on the concrete wall behind him. This wasn't a tap on the arm, it was a solid shove -- and assault on an officer of the law. Saying he was merely taking "a step backwards from the surprise that someone would actually defy his 'authoritah'" is a deliberate and unfair characterization of what happened.

This really isn't that hard. If you don't want to get punched by policemen, then don't assault them while they're doing their jobs.