2016 National Political Conventions

[Timsup2nothin]

I always found this kind of weird - for a politician, he's good, but the really good orators mostly aren't politicians.

If they aren't politicians what do these great orators talk about, and who do they talk to?

I mean, I consider myself a great salesman, and that obviously involves speaking, but it certainly isn't what I would call oratory.

Teachers/professors could maybe be considered orators, but in my experience almost all of them suck, and the ones that stand out stand out more because of the low bar than actual greatness on their part.

 

[Zelig]

TED speakers, professional speakers, comedians, actors all come to mind.

It mostly comes down to the amount and effectiveness of practice - full-time professors and politicians have better things to do with their time than getting really good at speeches.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

TED speakers, professional speakers, comedians, actors all come to mind.

It mostly comes down to the amount and effectiveness of practice - full-time professors and politicians have better things to do with their time than getting really good at speeches.

Actors and comedians, just my opinion, don't give speeches. The component "a call to action" is almost always missing from a presentation intended to entertain.

Professional speakers I mostly consider to be similar to salesmen. I can make a pitch. I can make a really good pitch. But I don't consider that a speech either. Again, it is in the "call to action" component. When the call to action is for an immediate 'get out your wallet' moment it isn't the same, to me, as actually moving people's minds and hearts.

Now, there are certainly some professional speakers that are outside the sales arena...so you did give an answer that I have to agree with. I also, even though I wasn't thinking it at the moment when I asked, think some preachers would fit as good orators, though again many fall into the 'salesman' category.

 

[EgonSpengler]

On his podcast a while ago, Adam Savage talked about going to a TED conference. His favorite presentation of the day was by a scientist, I can't remember her name, but he said by far the best speaker of the day was Al Gore. He said Gore simply blew everyone else off the stage, in terms of his public speaking.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

On his podcast a while ago, Adam Savage talked about going to a TED conference. His favorite presentation of the day was by a scientist, I can't remember her name, but he said by far the best speaker of the day was Al Gore. He said Gore simply blew everyone else off the stage, in terms of his public speaking.

And that's Al Gore, who among politicians is basically a bumpkin, as public speakers go.

 

[Zelig]

I suspect any politician (or anyone else) would be drastically better at any event where they had their speech solidly memorized rather than having a teleprompter.

Actors and comedians, just my opinion, don't give speeches. The component "a call to action" is almost always missing from a presentation intended to entertain.

Well, you have actors who are explicitly giving political speeches when playing politician characters. They're typically better than real politicians.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I didn't see the full broadcast last night, but I've been hearing and watching clips. Was Sarah Silverman sort of co-presenting with Al Franken, or was she interrupting him? I know in awards show they sometimes put two people on the podium together, and I could see putting two comedians up together, but from the clips I've seen it's unclear to me if she was supposed to be there or pulled a Kanye.

 

[Takhisis]

I watched the opening, Michelle Obama sometime later, plus a couple snippets here and there. The Democrats can really upstage the defeatist-apocalyptic ‘our world is ending’ mindset the RNC emanated last week.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I didn't see the full broadcast last night, but I've been hearing and watching clips. Was Sarah Silverman sort of co-presenting with Al Franken, or was she interrupting him? I know in awards show they sometimes put two people on the podium together, and I could see putting two comedians up together, but from the clips I've seen it's unclear to me if she was supposed to be there or pulled a Kanye.

She was co-presenting with Franken. But the whole thing was a cringe worthy mess. They tried to do a tag team and tell jokes but it totally fell flat. And then they were told to stretch things because Paul Simon was not ready yet so they had to improvise. Both Franken and Silverman clearly did not know what to do or say since they had already finished their prepared remarks. The Sanders delegates started booing Silverman when she mentioned Clinton. So she goes back to the mic and tells them off. It was a disaster.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

She was co-presenting with Franken. But the whole thing was a cringe worthy mess. They tried to do a tag team and tell jokes but it totally fell flat. And then they were told to stretch things because Paul Simon was not ready yet so they had to improvise. Both Franken and Silverman clearly did not know what to do or say since they had already finished their prepared remarks. The Sanders delegates started booing Silverman when she mentioned Clinton. So she goes back to the mic and tells them off. It was a disaster.

I think it was perfect. Sarah Silverman was an outspoken Sanders supporter. She might be the only person who took the stage last night who could say that her compadres are being ridiculous...and she did. In the spectrum of responses hers set a boundary, and when the Bernie folks are looking at the rest of the message, as delivered by Warren and Sanders and Michelle Obama, they are probably going to wonder if maybe she's right.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Heh...never thought of it this way... This article makes the case that Debbie Wasserman-Shultz succeeded in guiding a stable Democratic party all the way to the convention, unified behind an electable nominee, while Reince Priebus utterly failed and allowed his party to be hijacked and torn apart. DWS threw herself on her sword to keep her party unified and stable, while Reince Priebus didn't, and as a result Trump blew up the party.

Interesting perspective... DWS as the hero/martyr I'll have to think about that a bit

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I dunno about all of that, but there's no doubt that she cooperated in making herself the lightning rod and draining off a lot of the venom the primary generated.

I also think that dropping the hijacking of the GOP on Priebus' doorstep isn't particularly fair. I think the GOP has been dancing with the devil for a long time, and as the saying goes "when ya dance with the devil, the devil don't change." This year just happened to be when the devil came knocking and collected their soul.

 

[Lexicus]

Well I for one will never regard her as anything other than a water-carrier for corporate criminals. Still better than most Republicans though.

I also think that dropping the hijacking of the GOP on Priebus' doorstep isn't particularly fair. I think the GOP has been dancing with the devil for a long time, and as the saying goes "when ya dance with the devil, the devil don't change." This year just happened to be when the devil came knocking and collected their soul.

Exactly this. Arguably they've been a de facto white nationalist party since Nixon.

 

[Traitorfish]

That seems an overstatement. Not necessarily because I think it's uncharitable, but because both major US parties are fundamentally big-tent coalitions, not particularly given to unity even around concrete policies, let alone woolly ideological categories like "white nationalism". If you're correct, that the Republicans have united behind a single, very abstract position and stayed united for over four decades, then they've achieved the greatest feat in American political history and nobody even noticed.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That seems an overstatement. Not necessarily because I think it's uncharitable, but because both major US parties are fundamentally big-tent coalitions, not particularly given to unity even around concrete policies, let alone woolly ideological categories like "white nationalism". If you're correct, that the Republicans have united behind a single, very abstract position and stayed united for over four decades, then they've achieved the greatest feat in American political history and nobody even noticed.

I think you took it other than as meant. The Republicans haven't been united behind white nationalism for four decades. As you point out, they have usually been united only in name, for the most part. They spread their...tent doors...to bring the white nationalists in 48 years ago, and they have danced with them enough to keep them in the tent hoping for another roll in that hay. Now the bill for all that flirtation has come due. They were faced with either saying no and hoping the white nationalists wouldn't burn their tent down on the way out, or laying down and hoping to get it over with.

 

[onejayhawk]

Heh...never thought of it this way... This article makes the case that Debbie Wasserman-Shultz succeeded in guiding a stable Democratic party all the way to the convention, unified behind an electable nominee, while Reince Priebus utterly failed and allowed his party to be hijacked and torn apart. DWS threw herself on her sword to keep her party unified and stable, while Reince Priebus didn't, and as a result Trump blew up the party.

Interesting perspective... DWS as the hero/martyr I'll have to think about that a bit

When you start an argument with the assertion that the Republican party has been overrun, your chances are slim. Bai promptly stabbed what was left of his credibility with this, "What’s Trump giving the Mexicans to get his wall financed? Texas?" It's a partisan hack job and not a good one.

Priebus ran what appears to be a fair set of primary elections. DWS did not. Call me crazy, but I think that's a lot to overcome.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Priebus ran what appears to be a fair set of primary elections. DWS did not. Call me crazy, but I think that's a lot to overcome.

J

You think no one at the RNC has ever had a conversation about how so and so could beat such and such? You think no one at the RNC has ever complained that some flunky on so and so's campaign turned in the wrong form and then made a big scene when they didn't get the result they mistakenly expected?

The difference here is that no one wants to reveal the RNC's e-mails to embarrass them, because they have done such a thorough job of embarrassing themselves that no one can be bothered.

 

[Kennigit]

You think no one at the RNC has ever had a conversation about how so and so could beat such and such? You think no one at the RNC has ever complained that some flunky on so and so's campaign turned in the wrong form and then made a big scene when they didn't get the result they mistakenly expected?

The difference here is that no one wants to reveal the RNC's e-mails to embarrass them, because they have done such a thorough job of embarrassing themselves that no one can be bothered.

Republicans don't know how to send emails

 

[Zelig]

When you start an argument with the assertion that the Republican party has been overrun, your chances are slim. Bai promptly stabbed what was left of his credibility with this, "What’s Trump giving the Mexicans to get his wall financed? Texas?" It's a partisan hack job and not a good one.

Priebus ran what appears to be a fair set of primary elections. DWS did not. Call me crazy, but I think that's a lot to overcome.

J

You still haven't answered:

That's very simplistic. What of those new voters of whom everyone was so proud? Also, some Bernie-or-Bust people were formerly active. They may still be active--for a third party. Also, there is a difference between willing to vote and willing to work for the campaign. in Labor law the term is chilling effect.

How is there a chilling effect there?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Republicans don't know how to send emails

He's a senator. His staff sends e-mails. They probably send e-mails referring to him as a f'ing Luddite that they would be embarrassed to see on wiki-leaks.

Zelig, you don't seriously think that J is going to answer your question, do you? He is a functional duplicate of the Donald Trump hot air machine.