2020 Election Thread!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter GoodEnoughForMe
- Start date
Oh no J, c'mon... This is not the line you quoted when you claimed offense. Now you are turning your sensibilities/sensitivities into a moving target/goalpost. You said:
Clearly you were not responding to this sentence
because you didn't quote it, or even the whole post... you specifically parsed out a completely different sentence. Claiming now that it was some other sentence that offended you is just... whatevs... In any case you've now explained that your argument isn't that Republicans are not XYZ, and instead your argument is that they are, but the Democrats are just as bad. Fine, I fully understand this characterization of your position, I'll just take your word for it for sake of discussion... sorry I misinterpreted your position.
However... once again... saying that "The Republicans aren't any worse in the XYZ category than the Democrats" is totally irrelevant and there is no purpose in even making that point in this discussion. You're only bringing it up because its your favourite windmill. See changing your argument to "the Democrats are just as bad" has no impact on the correctness of my point. "The Democrats are just as bad" doesn't quite wash when the Republicans have an actual Klansman featuring prominently in their ranks. You know this, which is why you are trying to exclude Duke. Whether your (the royal your) point is "Republicans aren't XYZ", or "Democrats are equally bad" doesn't even matter. Duke blows your argument up either way. That's why excluding Duke is self-serving, because if you can't exclude him your argument turns to ashes. Why this offends you is beyond me, but in any case your offense in this regard isn't my fault.
Once again... the issue is the 2020 election. Trump is the presumed Republican nominee, period. The Republicans being the same, worse, or indifferent to Democrats in the XYZ category has no bearing whatsoever on who the Democrats are going to nominate to face Trump in 2020.
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onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Is there a point in this ramble? You did a Donald and doubled down on an insult.
The bottom line is that you are claiming that the Democrats don't stink of bigotry as much as Republicans. That's offensive.
J
No... the bottom line is the argument of "whether the Democrats stink of bigotry as much as Republicans" is tangential, and irrelevant. That is the point of the ramble.
And you've changed what you're supposedly offended about yet again.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Then we disagree. The nose-in-the-air, we're-better-than-you attitude is the heart of the Democrat's problems.
J
J
On this we agree 100%
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Back to the windmills, I see...
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onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Don Quixote died in bed, surrounded by people who loved him. I could do worse for role models.
By saying that it's a windmill, you continue to say the Democrat/left's sh!t doesn't stink. Get off the fence.
J
By saying that it's a windmill, you continue to say the Democrat/left's sh!t doesn't stink. Get off the fence.
J
Didn't you just say that you acknowledged Republicans were XYZ and you weren't trying to argue they weren't, you're just making the point that Democrats were too? So its not a myth, according to your own stated position, right? Unless you want to revise your argument back into "Republicans aren't XYZ"?
Make up your mind. You need to get off the fence before you start demanding that other people do.
Make up your mind. You need to get off the fence before you start demanding that other people do.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
No. I said the Democrats/left and the Republicans/right are functionally indistinguishable. The Democrats trying to make the distinction is the core of their problems.
J
J
Well Don Quixote is as imaginary as his windmill dragons... so, theres that... I mean whatevs, if you want to make Chewbacca your role model who am I to stop you. I can't miss the irony that you admit to admiring him though
As for the windmill... no you are incorrect. By saying its a windmill, I am saying its irrelevant, a non-issue to the topic at hand and you keep trying to bring it up because you see it as an issue in your mind when it really isn't.
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Farm Boy
I hope you dance
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 28,269
To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go!
People don't really do issues, they do people and issues are sometimes the lens they sort that through. How is only useful through why. There are an awful lot of monsters. I cannot see all of my son's. My wife cannot see all of mine. Perception is hard once we grow our filters. Shifting them causes pain. Dreaming deeply enough to crash into those horrors headlong and for all to see your shame may ultimately be one of the few ways in which we redeem ourselves.
/rant at your daring to disparage Don.
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go!
People don't really do issues, they do people and issues are sometimes the lens they sort that through. How is only useful through why. There are an awful lot of monsters. I cannot see all of my son's. My wife cannot see all of mine. Perception is hard once we grow our filters. Shifting them causes pain. Dreaming deeply enough to crash into those horrors headlong and for all to see your shame may ultimately be one of the few ways in which we redeem ourselves.
/rant at your daring to disparage Don.
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Morally maybe, "functionally", no... On this we disagree. The Democrats failing to distinguish themselves sufficiently in ways that resonate with the electorate is part of their problem.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
It's true they failed to distinguish themselves in a way that resonated. This, in large part, was because the characterization of Republicans as racist is hypocritical. It isn't that the accusation is untrue, but that they don't recognize it in the mirror. Hence, the nose-in-the-air arrogance that has been their downfall. It's rare that you can convince someone by pointing out their faults. That's doubly true when you ignore your own.
J
A very well constructed dovetail/shoehorn of your windmill back into the discussion. Your point is wrong but your shoehorn was masterfully crafted. I award you bonus points for style.
The strategy created resentment and feelings of alienation among voters that they could have benefitted from, while failing to sufficiently excite/rally their base. "Hypocrisy" had nothing to do with it... but again, nice try.
The strategy created resentment and feelings of alienation among voters that they could have benefitted from, while failing to sufficiently excite/rally their base. "Hypocrisy" had nothing to do with it... but again, nice try.
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onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
So it was OK that the candidate called Trump supporters deplorable. Good to know.
There was a WSJ quote I used in another thread. It's from the first Bush Presidency, "Democrats think of themselves as the best people: the most intelligent and informed, the most public spirited, the most morally pure.” No wonder they come off as self-righteous elitists.
J
Yeah, you've certainly learned why elitism and condescension don't work.
Can you see that "think of themselves as the best people: the most intelligent and informed, the most public spirited, the most morally pure” could be easily said of Republicans as well? So where does the "elitism" come in? I mean I understand the charge being levied at Democrats, but I think that this WSJ comment you quoted is a non-sequitur in that regard.
Also, the connection you are trying to make is off base. The deplorables remark was a bad move and I said so at the time. However, the reason it pissed people off was not because they found the comment "hypocritical". It turned people off because it was criticism, it was a negative comment about a group of people that they identified with, so they took it personally, on behalf of themselves and their family/friends/neighbors, it had nothing to do with "hypocrisy".
Assuming this is sarcasm directed at me... and assuming you view my disagreements with you (and J's) as "elitism and condescension"... What then... to your mind... "didn't work" about my comments? In other words... What do you think my goal is? You threatened to stop talking to me when I remarked that your position was doublethink, beyond my capability to meaningfully debate.
My position has not changed, and yet we are still talking. So in that sense, whatever I am doing is, in-fact "working", at least on you.
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I'm not responding to your posts, I'm commenting on your hypocrisy.
