2020 US Election (Part One)

[Kyriakos]

And Hillary's team was the sharpest ever assembled in the history of Man. Sharpness is over-rated, hence Trump.

Sometimes her handlers made mistakes.

 

[rah]

The key to your comment was your use of "FEW". Few doesn't win elections.
Maybe someday Socialism won't be the bogie man but that day is not here yet.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah man. During the Obamacare debate there was a lot of people I worked with at restaurants and other unskilled labor jobs that were really turned off by the heavy-handed messaging of the right and a few that began to tentatively embrace socialism in name (and situationally) if not in reality. Same when it came to the way Missouri disgracefully repealed minimum wage increases because 'socialism'. The harder and harder the right pushes, the more they are going to get pushback from people that normally wouldn't pay attention.

I'm not predicting anything with certainty, just noting that the over the top rhetoric and extreme tactics of the right against 'socialism' can have an opposite effect as to what's intended. Hell, the way they obsess over AOC and Bernie on Fox has provided a lot of people with at least an idea of what socialism is that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

Fair enough.

 

[El_Machinae]

People who complain about socialism, well most of them, we taught in the public education system. A damning indictment of socialism, i think.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The key to your comment was your use of "FEW". Few doesn't win elections.
Maybe someday Socialism won't be the bogie man but that day is not here yet.

Look how quickly Trump has flipped the script on embracing open and virulent racism in normal political discourse. It's probably fair to argue that the undercurrents of racism were always there in a way that socialist undercurrents were not but we're only a couple of generations removed from very big, socialist projects like the New Deal and the Great Society (I think that's what LBJ called it). Point being that these things can turn on a dime in ways that are hard to predict. The extreme push against AOC et al is destabilizing the system and the shakeup could go either way even if it's not likely to go in the direction of socialism at the moment.

 

[rah]

People who complain about socialism, well most of them, we taught in the public education system. A damning indictment of socialism, i think.

More like a damning of our public education system

 

[rah]

socialist projects like the New Deal and the Great Society (I think that's what LBJ called it).

Note the use of terms that don't include socialism. There was a reason for that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Note the use of terms that don't include socialism. There was a reason for that.

Did not stop the right from calling it that. Let's not act like people were ignorant of what the programs were even if they weren't marketed as such. And I know I'm repeating it but the way everything has been called socialism now means nothing is and it both gives cover to people like Bernie and AOC and emboldens them. I can't imagine another major politician full-on embracing open socialism before Bernie and he's no longer the only one out there.

 

[rah]

Let's not act like people were ignorant

But they were and still are. That's how we got Trump.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Let's not act like people were ignorant of what the programs were even if they weren't marketed as such.

That's not an act, it's a fact. Face it man, the American voting public, to a staggering degree, has not clue one what is or isn't "socialist," and NEVER has.

Bernie is burnt because HE said he is a socialist. Others get painted with the socialist brush, but can just point out that the painters are the right wing and they also paint them as horned demons with wings so how seriously can they be taken.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@rah That's fair. I would point to the fact that he won in a fluke and didn't get a majority of the popular vote but point taken.

@Timsup2nothin - they did call it social security! But yeah, your point is taken too.
Edit :And the right wing is actually educating people on socialism in a way that doesn't help them. They take apart popular things like Obamacare by calling it socialism and people tend to go, Huh, well I think Obamcare/social medicine is good, what else do they have to offer?

 

[rah]

It was such a fluke it's likely to happen again. Popular vote doesn't matter. My fear is that dems will take it for granted again and the same result will occur.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

@rah That's fair. I would point to the fact that he won in a fluke and didn't get a majority of the popular vote but point taken.

@Timsup2nothin - they did call it social security! But yeah, your point is taken too.

If they had called it "socialism security" even right in the middle of the depression USians would have opted to starve first.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

My fear is that dems will take it for granted again and the same result will occur.

We're too busy trying to out-virtue signal and out-woke each other that we don't have time to take anything for granted!

 

[Berzerker]

love it or leave it is not a racist sentiment, it was the refrain of hypocritical uberpatriots to anti-war protesters during Vietnam

 

[Timsup2nothin]

love it or leave it is not a racist sentiment, it was the refrain of hypocritical uberpatriots to anti-war protesters during Vietnam

When it is specifically targeted at people who "look like they are from somewhere else" it becomes clearly a racist sentiment. Context man, context.


Aw, crap.

Fell for it again.

Berzerker comes wildly out of left field and says some rando thing, and the thread turns on its head.

My apologies.

 

[Socrates99]

And Hillary's team was the sharpest ever assembled in the history of Man. Sharpness is over-rated, hence Trump.

Yep, no denying that. The only problem is Hillary's team did not take Trump seriously. They thought he'd be beat based on Trump's poor character. They also seemed to have a blind spot for Hillary's own flaws. She had a lot of money but she was a terrible candidate.

 

[Naskra]

but she was a terrible candidate

Yoko Ono might have been worse, but sadly born in Kenya, or some such place.

 

[Berzerker]

When it is specifically targeted at people who "look like they are from somewhere else" it becomes clearly a racist sentiment. Context man, context.


Aw, crap.

Fell for it again.

Berzerker comes wildly out of left field and says some rando thing, and the thread turns on its head.

My apologies.

I'd think it was racist to exclude people based on their skin color, but apparently only white people can be told to leave the country.

 

[Socrates99]

If they had called it "socialism security" even right in the middle of the depression USians would have opted to starve first.

Except at that point the US had three political parties that were socialist. One was even a communist party. The New Deal was a concession to the rising socialist movement in the US.

It wasn't until the cold war that socialism became the bad word it is now.