2020 US Election (Part One)

[Berzerker]

Exactly which millions and how were they ruined?

Primarily the people of Syria and Libya, but we could toss in a few other countries

How? Regime change, war on terror

 

[Socrates99]

People in Libya are humans too, you know. That country is dead and to never live again - much like equally rebuilt Iraq.
Obama was refined, pleasant to listen to and could work even as a role model - yet that doesn't take away from the fact he too started wars and invasions of foreign countries, much like the vast majority of US presidents. Trump is ridiculously clownish, and even so he still hasn't actually started a war - though he did have some airstrikes against Syria.

I think the only reason Trump hasn't started a war is because he wants to be re-elected and he knows he needs the anti-war vote. A second term could get ugly since he won't have that limitation anymore.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Primarily the people of Syria and Libya, but we could toss in a few other countries

How? Regime change, war on terror

So you want to blame Obama for the Syrian Civil War that erupted during the Arab Spring of 2011? Sure the US was a participant along with Russia, Iran, Israel, Turkey, the Kurds, Iraq, et al and, lest we forget, Mr. "I like killing my people" Assad himself. The death and destruction in Syria is the product of not only many years of ME tension, but of lots of outside interference all trying to force an outcome. Oh, and since you do want to to attribute personal blame around, who was the guy who took us full force into the this current round of ME quagmire by invading Iraq? It is interesting that you both lay the decades old problems of hate and misrule in the Middle East at the feet of Obama as if he was the start of the death and killing there.

People in Libya are humans too, you know. That country is dead and to never live again - much like equally rebuilt Iraq.

The US intervention into Libya in 2011 was certainly a diplomatic misstep and failure. It sparked a nasty civil war in 2012 that is still a mess. Regime change failed to bring an improved situation. But you cannot attribute 6 years of failure by the Libyans to Obama. How many people died during the US intervention in Libya?

Do we get to blame Trump for all the deaths in Yemen because he sold the Saudis the means to carry out the killings? With your logic it would seem so.

 

[Kyriakos]

So you want to blame Obama for the Syrian Civil War that erupted during the Arab Spring of 2011? Sure the US was a participant along with Russia, Iran, Israel, Turkey, the Kurds, Iraq, et al and, lest we forget, Mr. "I like killing my people" Assad himself. The death and destruction in Syria is the product of not only many years of ME tension, but of lots of outside interference all trying to force an outcome. Oh, and since you do want to to attribute personal blame around, who was the guy who took us full force into the this current round of ME quagmire by invading Iraq? It is interesting that you both lay the decades old problems of hate and misrule in the Middle East at the feet of Obama as if he was the start of the death and killing there.
The US intervention into Libya in 2011 was certainly a diplomatic misstep and failure. It sparked a nasty civil war in 2012 that is still a mess. Regime change failed to bring an improved situation. But you cannot attribute 6 years of failure by the Libyans to Obama. How many people died during the US intervention in Libya?

Do we get to blame Trump for all the deaths in Yemen because he sold the Saudis the means to carry out the killings? With your logic it would seem so.

Saudi famously has bought a lot of dem politicians too, and of course Trump has part of the blame for (allowing Saudi) that war.
Re blaming Libyans for the collapse of that country... I hope you are joking. What did you expect would happen when you toppled the government? A quick transition to democracy?

 

[Fippy]

I think the only reason Trump hasn't started a war is because he wants to be re-elected and he knows he needs the anti-war vote. A second term could get ugly since he won't have that limitation anymore.

Doubtful imo, Trump reminds me of loudmouths..lots of talk, little action.
He mostly lives on Twitter and in his own world tbh, harmless but useless.
Generals and high military would easily stop him.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well as a non-US citizen I'm not demanding anything, just expressing a personal preference.
Still, if you want to keep putting forward the same people who keep losing you elections I suspect you will keep losing elections.

That's exactly what I do NOT want to do. For the majority of my lifetime the Democratic party made a point of nominating the most wildly left candidate they could find...and despite having a gigantic numerical advantage that gave the commanding majorities in both houses of congress they got blown off the map every four years. Now the guys who changed that are being called "uninspiring" and "disappointing" and a new generation of Democrats is ready to repeat that gigantic mistake.

 

[Kyriakos]

That's exactly what I do NOT want to do. For the majority of my lifetime the Democratic party made a point of nominating the most wildly left candidate they could find...and despite having a gigantic numerical advantage that gave the commanding majorities in both houses of congress they got blown off the map every four years. Now the guys who changed that are being called "uninspiring" and "disappointing" and a new generation of Democrats is ready to repeat that gigantic mistake.

Gore, Kerry and Clinton also lost, and those were centrist (well, if one is kind; they can easily be also seen as right-wing) suits so what point is there to argue centrist dems tend to win?
Even Obama was elected on a "hope and change" platform, not a "more of the same crap" one.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Gore, Kerry and Clinton also lost, and those were centrist (well, if one is kind; they can easily be also seen as right-wing) suits so what point is there to argue centrist dems tend to win?
Even Obama was elected on a "hope and change" platform, not a "more of the same crap" one.

Along with the young who ignore history, we can always count on our local Greek. Believe it or not this is the 21st century, not the first century ever.

 

[Kyriakos]

Along with the young who ignore history, we can always count on our local Greek. Believe it or not this is the 21st century, not the first century ever.

What about the ones who shy away from answering the point? Are they 21st century or archaic?

 

[Lexicus]

Along with the young who ignore history, we can always count on our local Greek. Believe it or not this is the 21st century, not the first century ever.

You actually think it's "history" that the Democrats nominated "the most wildly left candidate they could find"? That is not the history I'm familiar with. The likes of Dukakis and Mondale were the most wildly left people the Democrats could find? Give me a break...

 

[Fippy]

On a side note, Trump won his election cos of how the US system works..not by having the most votes.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What about the one's who shy away from answering the point? Are they 21st century or archaic?

I dunno why you shy away from answering the point. You tell me. In 1972 Richard Nixon was widely viewed as the next best thing to openly fascist, and there was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to not just destroy him at the polls...but the party was reeling from the revolt of 1968, when the "progressive wing" outright rioted during the convention, so they provided the most progressive candidate they could find...who got crushed. In 1976 with Watergate in the mirror and Nixon somehow freed from conviction for his crimes the Democrats literally couldn't lose, so they again put up the furthest out in the fringes candidate they could find and he was the only thing that salvaged the GOP from a generation of ignominy...and gave us twelve years of "Reaganomics" that we have yet to recover from.

So c'mon...answer the point.

 

[Kyriakos]

On a side note, Trump won his election cos of how the US system works..not by having the most votes.

Sure, yet that system is very unlikely to change.

I dunno why you shy away from answering the point. You tell me. In 1972 Richard Nixon was widely viewed as the next best thing to openly fascist, and there was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to not just destroy him at the polls...but the party was reeling from the revolt of 1968, when the "progressive wing" outright rioted during the convention, so they provided the most progressive candidate they could find...who got crushed. In 1976 with Watergate in the mirror and Nixon somehow freed from conviction for his crimes the Democrats literally couldn't lose, so they again put up the furthest out in the fringes candidate they could find and he was the only thing that salvaged the GOP from a generation of ignominy...and gave us twelve years of "Reaganomics" that we have yet to recover from.

So c'mon...answer the point.

You can either focus on some rather tenuous "circles of history show I am right" position, or answer about the rather far more recent defeats of centrist dem candidates, starting with Gore, continuing with Kerry and ending (hopefully) with Clinton. I mean the last one was just 3 something years ago, surely not that many things changed to make nominating another "centrist" viable.

 

[rah]

On a side note, Trump won his election cos of how the US system works..not by having the most votes.

In all fairness, that's how you get to be president in this country.

 

[Fippy]

Clinton lost cos she was not liked much as person, or am i missing something?

 

[rah]

If she had spent more time campaigning in certain states she may have still won regardless.
That's why you should pay more attention to the rules for victory.
She got complacent

 

[Kyriakos]

Clinton lost cos she was not liked much as person, or am i missing something?

Progressive voters didn't like due to her policies.

 

[Narz]

The goal and only goal should be to defeat Trump. All the rest will take care of itself if we do that.

I'd rather have a positive goal than a negative one.

Bouncing from abusive relationship to abusive relationship is what led to Trump. Well this guy seems different at least.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Clinton lost cos she was not liked much as person, or am i missing something?

Clinton lost for the same reason most Democrats have lost for the past seventy years...her biggest single claim to fame among Democrats was that more than anyone else that could possibly be found she would absolutely enrage anyone who had even a single hair tilted towards the GOP. It's funny watching Democrats cry about how Republicans support Trump "just because he lights the <other side>'s hair on fire" when that has been the core of their strategy for decades and still is.

 

[Narz]

And that has exactly what to do with your glaringly wrong claim about voter turnout?

Look that one up yourself, can't be doing all your hw for you.

One time I saw this woman make an obviously after the light changed turn, and this guy blared his horn at her...which I don't approve of but he was in the right and obviously mad as a hornet. She made this exaggerated "patting her mouth yawn" gesture at him as he went by. He whipped a turn into the same parking lot she went into and slapped the snot out of her when she got out of her car. Much like you she wanted to live in a world where her actions had no consequences.

What's the point of that story? You want to slap everyone who doesn't take you seriously. More therapy fodder methinks