2020 US Election (Part One)

[Kyriakos]

I was talking with my wife in the car earlier today that I suspect coronavirus is helping Biden and hurting both Trump and Bernie big time, as people are now looking for comfort, how things were, normalcy, etc., etc., and Bernie's "revolution" mantra sounds scary to those with coronavirus concerns, and sure enough, those who say it is a big concern, according to NPR, are voting for Biden over Bernie by over 2:1 numbers. Tough break for Bernie. Especially because national health are and sick leave and free vaccines (Bernie's policy) would do way more to stop it.

It's the US. Simpler things would explain why anyone would choose Biden. Some people are just stuck with him being the VP of Obama, as if he did anything.
Also, old people like him. From minority groups, he only has an edge with black people, while massively losing in the latino community. Some other black people support Bernie, like actual political ones:

From a telling comment there: "Jesse Jackson endorsed Bernie because Bernie stood with him before, while Kamala, Beto and Pete endorse Biden after saying he’s not fit to be president."

 

[Zardnaar]

Older Gen X is 90s alternative. I was in early highschool when Cobain offed himself.

Cobain was decent but 90s was really good for rock/metal.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I was talking with my wife in the car earlier today that I suspect coronavirus is helping Biden and hurting both Trump and Bernie big time, as people are now looking for comfort, how things were, normalcy, etc., etc., and Bernie's "revolution" mantra sounds scary to those with coronavirus concerns, and sure enough, those who say it is a big concern, according to NPR, are voting for Biden over Bernie by over 2:1 numbers. Tough break for Bernie. Especially because national health are and sick leave and free vaccines (Bernie's policy) would do way more to stop it.

Crisis control is always perceived to be more in the wheelhouse of the moderate. Obama surprising me by not letting the financial collapse of 2008 be the end of civilization as we know it is what made a Democrat out of me.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Crisis control is always perceived to be more in the wheelhouse of the moderate. Obama surprising me by not letting the financial collapse of 2008 be the end of civilization as we know it is what made a Democrat out of me.

More or less, yeah. Bush won in 2000 in part on the back of a return to normalcy after Clinton, so it kind of is up to who is in charge when things go wrong to define normal. Obama's constratined response to the recession (in part his fault and in part congressional Republicans), also probably helped lay some of the groundwork for Trump and the deviation from normal. But people are mostly just looking for comfort now, and Biden provides that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

More or less, yeah. Bush won in 2000 in part on the back of a return to normalcy after Clinton, so it kind of is up to who is in charge when things go wrong to define normal. Obama's constratined response to the recession (in part his fault and in part congressional Republicans), also probably helped lay some of the groundwork for Trump and the deviation from normal. But people are mostly just looking for comfort now, and Biden provides that.

I didn't really notice any abnormalcy under Clinton, other than the predicted "a Democrat in the white house will be the death of us all" not happening.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I didn't really notice any abnormalcy under Clinton, other than the predicted "a Democrat in the white house will be the death of us all" not happening.

People viewed him having sex with an intern as messed up/abnormal that Gore got penalized a bit for as his VP. There's an argument to be made someone else would have won in 2000 that wasn't tied to it. Obviously none of this is to the extent of Trump, but there was definitely a push for restoring norms/character/etc. after him.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

People viewed him having sex with an intern as messed up/abnormal that Gore got penalized a bit for as his VP. There's an argument to be made someone else would have won in 2000 that wasn't tied to it. Obviously none of this is to the extent of Trump, but there was definitely a push for restoring norms/character/etc. after him.

I guess. His job approval numbers were really good though. Of course, I spent more than half of his term as his guest so I didn't pay as much attention as some people.

 

[Birdjaguar]

If Sanders fails tomorrow, what will all you Biden haters do?

 

[Patine]

If Sanders fails tomorrow, what will all you Biden haters do?

I, myself, don't hate Biden. I'm already resigned to the near inevitability that this year's U.S. Presidential election, and what comes of it, will end up being a bleak gong show, regardless, just like 2016 was when the main party nominations were officially made. It's the party bosses of both parties, the sensationalist media outlets, and the big corporate donors and moneyed special interest group who have become the problems - in fact, I'd go so far as to call them collective enemies of the American Constitution, people, and nation.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If Sanders fails tomorrow, what will all you Biden haters do?

They're gonna hate Biden. I'm fine with that so long as they support him once the race is over.

What I am really interested in hearing from them is what they think Sanders should do. I think the progressive wing of the party is important, not just for beating Trump but for moving the party and the country in a positive direction. I'm concerned about how a Sanders loss impacts that, and I'm a lot more concerned if Sanders puts himself and them through a long drawn out drubbing.

 

[Zardnaar]

They're gonna hate Biden. I'm fine with that so long as they support him once the race is over.

What I am really interested in hearing from them is what they think Sanders should do. I think the progressive wing of the party is important, not just for beating Trump but for moving the party and the country in a positive direction. I'm concerned about how a Sanders loss impacts that, and I'm a lot more concerned if Sanders puts himself and them through a long drawn out drubbing.

They need to subvert the party from within I suppose. Or take a seat at the table.

Not campaign in burning the table down. That dirty C word compromise.

They can't win an election. They can't get elected with a friendly" electorate and they can't seize power through other means.

What's the actual %. I'm assuming around 10% of the electorate and maybe 25-40% if the people who vote in the Democratic primaries.

AOC in say a decade with more experience and larger profile might have a better shot.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think Bernie will stay in at least until the end of March. Too bib an ego. Then I think he will support Biden, but lots of his supporters will not.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The last poll I saw had 6% of Biden supporters not voting for Bernie if he won, and 4% of Bernie supporters not voting for Biden if he won.

I think Bernie is going to be effectively defeated tomorrow, but I think he should stick around at least for the next debate. I'd much rather Biden have a 1v1 opportunity against Bernie before having to do so against Trump. Might as well get some practice in.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think Bernie will stay in at least until the end of March. Too bib an ego. Then I think he will support Biden, but lots of his supporters will not.

I hope not. If he takes the predicted beating tomorrow he really needs to duck before the 17th.

The last poll I saw had 6% of Biden supporters not voting for Bernie if he won, and 4% of Bernie supporters not voting for Biden if he won.

I think Bernie is going to be effectively defeated tomorrow, but I think he should stick around at least for the next debate. I'd much rather Biden have a 1v1 opportunity against Bernie before having to do so against Trump. Might as well get some practice in.

I don't see any good outcomes there. If Sanders plays attack dog he hurts Biden and himself and makes the party more untenable for his movement. If he doesn't he disappoints his fervent supporters who go away believing that if he had only "taken the gloves off" and "shown Biden for the corrupt, brain rotted, etc etc etc etc" that they insist on believing that he is then he would have won the nomination...and no doubt the DNC somehow "muzzled" him to "steal the nomination."

Plus, if he stays through the debate on Sunday there is no offramp before Tuesday the 17th; a huge delegate count in four states where he is shaping up to get absolutely creamed. If he stays through that his only exit is tucking tail and slipping away. No "for the good of party unity," no "having met with the Vice President and been assured that our voices will be heard," none of that would ring the least bit true after a massive drubbing.

 

[Patine]

I hope not. If he takes the predicted beating tomorrow he really needs to duck before the 17th.


I don't see any good outcomes there. If Sanders plays attack dog he hurts Biden and himself and makes the party more untenable for his movement. If he doesn't he disappoints his fervent supporters who go away believing that if he had only "taken the gloves off" and "shown Biden for the corrupt, brain rotted, etc etc etc etc" that they insist on believing that he is then he would have won the nomination...and no doubt the DNC somehow "muzzled" him to "steal the nomination."

Plus, if he stays through the debate on Sunday there is no offramp before Tuesday the 17th; a huge delegate count in four states where he is shaping up to get absolutely creamed. If he stays through that his only exit is tucking tail and slipping away. No "for the good of party unity," no "having met with the Vice President and been assured that our voices will be heard," none of that would ring the least bit true after a massive drubbing.

"Loyalty and unity for the Party. Solidarity for the Party. Put aside all your differences so the Party can win. The Party winning is what matters. Individuals points and differences hurt the Party winning. All for the Party."

Perhaps it's the Party - both major Parties - that are actually the problem here.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"Loyalty and unity for the Party. Solidarity for the Party. Put aside all your differences so the Party can win. The Party winning is what matters. Individuals points and differences hurt the Party winning. All for the Party."

Perhaps it's the Party - both major Parties - that are actually the problem here.

Perhaps the implication that Trump and the GOP are just the same as the Democratic party will finally fall on deaf ears after being revealed as so demonstrably ridiculous.

 

[Ironsided]

If Sanders fails tomorrow, what will all you Biden haters do?

Very few on the left hate Biden. We don’t think he is evil. Just useless and clueless (like his supporters) and that he will likely lose to Trump - or an even mildly active republican bacterium culture.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Very few on the left hate Biden. We don’t think he is evil. Just useless and clueless (like his supporters) and that he will likely lose to Trump - or an even mildly active republican bacterium culture.

the way Biden wins in November is if all the Bernie supporters vote for him.

 

[Lexicus]

the way Biden wins in November is if all the Bernie supporters vote for him.

Man, if Biden loses it will be Biden's fault and no one else's.

 

[cardgame]

I dunno, I think we can safely blame the voting populace at large more than any one candidate.