2020 US Election (Part One)

[Kyriakos]

Yes Hispanic is certainly within the spectrum of "person of colour" in these parts, Asian too, ...

You what?

O is a mulatto. Part black, part white
Isn't he even distantly related to W?...

 

[Sommerswerd]

mulatto.

is considered offensive in this country, just an FYI.

Part black, part white

is just considered black in the US for the most part. Some people will refer to it colloquially as "mixed", or "light skinned", particularly in black communities, but it just counts as black. Generally (in the US at least) no one is going to consider you white if you have a black parent and a white parent. You're considered black. ​

 

[Kyriakos]

is considered offensive in this country, just an FYI. Part black, part white

is just considered black in the US for the most part. Some people will refer to it colloquially as "mixed", or "light skinned", particularly in black communities, but it just counts as black. Generally (in the US at least) no one is going to consider you white if you have a black parent and a white parent. You're considered black. ​

I didn't know that term for mixed is considered offensive... Sorry

That said, consider that O is a relative to W Bush. Doesn't sound fully black, if one may put it that way ^_^

F. Whitaker is black (for comparison ^_^ )

 

[Estebonrober]

She talks sorta like she does, doesn't she?

Yea but even Yang doesn’t belong in the same breath as Clinton, Harris, Biden. Which goes to why I replied. I don’t think they do talk the same at all. Some of them seem to be more open eyed about the reality that the post Cold War world has produced and its inherit flaws. Clinton and Biden want to double down on that vision.

Reducing Owen's post to "purism" is a really poor take on it, doesn't do it justice at all.

I agreed with 95% of his reasonably eloquent take, but Owen does come off as a Bernie purist and it is a problem if progressives want to include people (like me for example) or Warren who over time changed the way they see the neoliberal world working out for people. Owen has been pretty explicit about his disdain for any other candidates other than Bernie I think.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Doesn't sound fully black

Also offensive.​

That said, consider that O is a relative to W Bush.

It doesn't matter Kyr. Not in the slightest. Consider that most black Americans are going to have white relatives, distant or otherwise for a number of reasons, a big one being due to slavery. We're still considered black.

Having white relatives/ancestors has no impact on that, because we all have white ancestors. My (and my father's) complexion is closer to Michelle Obama, while my siblings and mother are all of a substantially lighter complexion than Barack. No one in this country would consider any of us anything besides black.

 

[Kyriakos]

Also offensive.​

It doesn't matter Kyr. Not in the slightest. Consider that most black Americans are going to have white relatives, distant or otherwise for a number of reasons, a big one being due to slavery. We're still considered black, having white relatives, ancestors has no impact on that. My (and my father's) complexion is closer to Michelle Obama, while my siblings and mother are all of a substantially lighter complexion than Barack. No one in this country would consider any of us anything besides black.

Sorry, but "mixed" race isn't offensive; it is a reality. Let alone that I didn't connote it as being positive or negative or anything in between... Just said that for the rest of the world "mixed race" is a known category, to which Obama quite clearly belongs given he has known ancestors who were ""white"".

I mean, he is still the "first black president". The talk was, if you recall, about AOC supporting an old white guy, so it is rather of relevance to remind how not even Obama is unrelated to the scum of the earth germanic whites (I am a person of color )

 

[Farm Boy]

"Mixed" isn't offensive, it's the word you can use(or are we onto a new one, like multiracial? legit question). "Not fully black" is what you can't say politely. Mulatto isn't offensive if you're old enough, like colored. But I doubt anyone cares when they're taking offense, and being out of date qualifies more readily than intent and usage. So hop to, K boy.

Edit: ok, I think I missed on tone. "Wry" was the goal, happy to modify/qualify.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sorry, but "mixed" race isn't offensive; it is a reality.

I never said "mixed race" was offensive, its not. I told you that in this country its generally considered offensive to say that someone "isn't fully black" or "can't pass for black" or "isn't black enough to call themselves black" or anything along those lines. You don't have to apologize to me Kyr or try to defend yourself, or argue whether what you said was offensive or not. I'm not mad at you or personally offended. I'm just letting you know that what your saying is considered offensive in this country.

Just said that for the rest of the world "mixed race" is a known category

No you didn't , but even if you'd said that, it wouldn't bear on this topic because the tread isn't titled "2020 Rest of the World Election". In any case, I get that is what you are meaning even though you didn't say it, which is why I kept specifying that I was talking about what is offensive in the US. The bottom line is that Obama is considered black in the US. I know that you derive great glee at repeatedly stating that he is related to the Bush family, and you probably want to debate it, but its irrelevant. He's black, in the US. Maybe he's in the official state-recognized category of "Mixed-race" or "mulatto" in Greece, but that's irrelevant. We can discuss that in the 2020 Greece election thread.

Anyway, I digress... the point is that I can certainly envision a reporter asking a Hispanic person like AOC why they are supporting a black candidate rather than the Hispanic one. That's just how we roll in Murica.​

 

[Kyriakos]

Actually in Greece the term is "μιγάς", which means mixed. It is also the greek term for "complex numbers" (μιγαδικοί) (cause they have two distinct parts )

 

[Farm Boy]

That's just how we roll in Murica.

Spoiler room for improvement :

 

[Lexicus]

Doesn't sound fully black,

Can you explain what you mean by this? Because generally speaking, in the US, we would consider this statement offensive because the implication is that people who are "fully black" sound uneducated, and Obama doesn't sound "fully black" because he speaks like an educated person....

Anyway, I digress... the point is that I can certainly envision a reporter asking a Hispanic person like AOC why they are supporting a black candidate rather than the Hispanic one. That's just how we roll in Murica.

Honestly, I think it's fundamentally racist because it's a question you would only ask a person of color, and it implies that politics are determined by racial identity in a way that's really ugly if you look at it closely...

 

[Kyriakos]

Can you explain what you mean by this? Because generally speaking, in the US, we would consider this statement offensive because the implication is that people who are "fully black" sound uneducated, and Obama doesn't sound "fully black" because he speaks like an educated person....

I think that no one else read that in my post Clearly the meaning was that he isn't as black-toned as Oprah or other famous blacker-skinned people; "sound" rather glaringly doesn't refer to something Obama said...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Can you explain what you mean by this? Because generally speaking, in the US, we would consider this statement offensive because the implication is that people who are "fully black" sound uneducated, and Obama doesn't sound "fully black" because he speaks like an educated person....

I think that how @Kyriakos meant it in this context was to say that it didn't seem like a person with white ancestors should be considered "fully black"... In other words "Hey! He's got white ancestors, that doesn't sound like he's fully black"

 

[Lexicus]

I think that no one else read that in my post

Pretty much any American would read that in your post, honestly.

Clearly the meaning was that he isn't as black-toned as Oprah or other famous blacker-skinned people.

Well, yeah, except this is obviously not true because you used the word "sound", as in:

O is a relative to W Bush. Doesn't sound fully black, if one may put it that way ^_^

edit thanks @Sommerswerd that hadn't occurred to me

 

[Sommerswerd]

Honestly, I think it's fundamentally racist because it's a question you would only ask a person of color, and it implies that politics are determined by racial identity in a way that's really ugly if you look at it closely...

Of course it is... but like I said... that's how we roll in this country, so its not by any stretch of the imagination an unexpected question.

 

[Kyriakos]

Lexicus, I am sure you have seen this expression used before: "this doesn't sound true". Hint: it doesn't mean something literally making a sound :/

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think that how @Kyriakos meant it in this context was to say that it didn't seem like a person with white ancestors should be considered "fully black"... In other words "Hey! He's got white ancestors, that doesn't sound like he's fully black"

The odd part of this is that there was a time when legal systems were confronted with defining "black" and the definition adopted by the US certainly lands Obama in the "yes" category while most legal systems in the world, including I suspect Greece, would define him as "white" for legal purposes.

 

[Takhisis]

(edit: xpost!) The thing is that the one-drop rule is not that common in the rest of the Western world™ so to outsiders the thought of somebody being a) tainted by blackness and b) considered black because eight generations ago there was a black runaway slave ancestor is hard to even think of, i.e. as they say in The Princess Bride, inconceivable.

Trump didn't have political baggage and people saw apprentice Trump not bankrupt scam artist Trump.

Trump didn't have political baggage? When? He'd espoused ‘socially liberal’ causes for decades until he found out it was better business to embrace his own inner instincts and publicly support the birtherist conspiracy theory that is code for ‘no Negroes in the White House’.

 

[Lexicus]

Of course it is... but like I said... that's how we roll in this country, so its not by any stretch of the imagination an unexpected question.

I think AOC performed pretty well, I would have been visibly angry if someone asked me that question.

Lexicus, I am sure you have seen this expression used before: "this doesn't sound true". Hint: it doesn't mean something literally making a sound :/

My apologies, I made an honest mistake...there is no need to be patronizing...

 

[Kyriakos]

My apologies, I made an honest mistake...there is no need to be patronizing...

Hey, just having some fun, after I was accused of being a racist