2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Patine]

I live in reality.

Even if they had NZs system the progressive wing still semi screwed as they wouldn't win a majority and would have to coalition anyway.

At least coalitions force compromises in government - and not ones made before the actual election from the exact same pool of political factions for each general ideological government base. You speak as though a system where a government can't hold an outright majority of it's own party every election is an unhealthy and flawed system - I firmly believe the complete opposite is true, and that is yet another critical and crippling flaw of the American system - the fact that it's either majority party control or near utter deadlock, and compromise is out the window - a complete failure of a political system, and, in the end, a complete betrayal of their own constituents.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm hoping she's not that stupid. Won't vote for her with Assclown at the top of the ticket.

 

[Takhisis]

Will Trump drop Pence and pick up Nikki Halley now that Joe has Kamala? Seems likely to me. He will give up the evangelical for a female who can be aggressive.

But she's not much of a firebrand like Palin was, so the question is: do you think that he would get the evangelical base worked up on his own? My guess is that he would, but what would Haley bring him?
And what would she bring his handlers in the GOP that Palin wouldn't?

 

[Hygro]

Will Trump drop Pence and pick up Nikki Halley now that Joe has Kamala? Seems likely to me. He will give up the evangelical for a female who can be aggressive.

I will bet against this.

 

[Zardnaar]

How is my post not "in the real world?" Is the "real world," you speak of a place where the American political system is free-and-fair, not subject to institutional corruption and rigging, and always offers a palatable candidate who is needed in a given election and can feel good about supporting, and shame others with a sense of moral rectitude for not supporting? If this is the "real world," to you, I'd advise to stop smoking whatever hallucinogenic agent you're indulging in and open your eyes. You and @Zardnaar accusing ME of not being in the "real world," while portraying a lie and delusion born of propaganda with any fool can see is not really how it is and is nothing more than a hoodwink is a disingenuous ploy to dismiss, offhand, a very valid and serious problem, or a sign that you both drink the Kool-Aid heavily and delusionally believe this tripe/ But I assure you both, I am in the real world, and just because it doesn't live up to your hopes, dreams, and expectations, doesn't make it unreal. So, if you two have rebuttals to any argument or statement I have, you can dispense with the pitiful "real world," crap that just makes YOU look out of touch.

Right here right now it's Trump or Biden pick your poison.

Don't vote or vote for a minor, in effect that supports Trump.

 

[Zardnaar]

At least coalitions force compromises in government - and not ones made before the actual election from the exact same pool of political factions for each general ideological government base. You speak as though a system where a government can't hold an outright majority of it's own party every election is an unhealthy and flawed system - I firmly believe the complete opposite is true, and that is yet another critical and crippling flaw of the American system - the fact that it's either majority party control or near utter deadlock, and compromise is out the window - a complete failure of a political system, and, in the end, a complete betrayal of their own constituents.

Labour here is on track to a landslide win.

Proportional voting was supposed to prevent that but they're polling 55-60%. Throw in greens and that's another 5%.

Different country but the AoC/Sanders types would be greens here I suppose.

 

[RobAnybody]

Yea yea, and cigarette taxes go to education and smoking prevention, but that actually still matters despite your little ennui over it "all being the same." OMG.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Farm Boy]

Figures.

 

[Ajidica]

Truman got the cold war going, changing policy from FDR.

Can you elaborate? To me blame falls equally on Great Comrade Stalin who was making it clear he had no intention of allowing independent -or even Finlandization of - Eastern European countries.

 

[RobAnybody]

Figures.

No, honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about or why I would care about such things (you referenced me I assume with that "Figures" post) - if you wanna clarify, I'll listen, if that wasn't for me, my bad, I just think you were waiting for a "oh, wow, I was totally gonna vote Biden but they messed up" reason but were never gonna do so.

 

[Farm Boy]

I understand on a certain level all money is the same. Hell, its even all dreamed up since its fiat. But how we fund things matters because it matters. We're social creatures like that. We tax the **** out of cigarettes in Illinois, and theoretically all that money goes to education and smoking prevention. I know the government in the state is corrupt enough that it means that then education winds up defunded from other sources because there's that sweet sweet vice tax filling in where general revenue would otherwise have to go. But it still matters that we send the cigarette taxes to schools. Just like Hyde matters despite it all being imaginary monopoly money. It matters to the Sisters of the Poor. It matters to me. It matters enough it's swapping my vote in this election but hey. I'm one of less than 100 million, I'm in a trew blew machine state, and it really doesn't matter. But it does, again, to me.

Edit: actually, it's lotto. Duh. Cigarette taxes are just blackholed(~8 bucks a pack these days, lol. Regression ftw).

 

[Birdjaguar]

But she's not much of a firebrand like Palin was, so the question is: do you think that he would get the evangelical base worked up on his own? My guess is that he would, but what would Haley bring him?
And what would she bring his handlers in the GOP that Palin wouldn't?

She is an attractive woman and Indian (south Asian). Pence is just another old white guy who prays. She would carry her self better in a debate too.

 

[Takhisis]

Can you elaborate? To me blame falls equally on Great Comrade Stalin who was making it clear he had no intention of allowing independent -or even Finlandization of - Eastern European countries.

But what about in America? They lynch Negroes!

She is an attractive woman and Indian (south Asian). Pence is just another old white guy who prays. She would carry her self better in a debate too.

You're not answering all of my question.

 

[Zardnaar]

I understand on a certain level all money is the same. Hell, its even all dreamed up since its fiat. But how we fund things matters because it matters. We're social creatures like that. We tax the **** out of cigarettes in Illinois, and theoretically all that money goes to education and smoking prevention. I know the government in the state is corrupt enough that it means that then education winds up defunded from other sources because there's that sweet sweet vice tax filling in where general revenue would otherwise have to go. But it still matters that we send the cigarette taxes to schools. Just like Hyde matters despite it all being imaginary monopoly money. It matters to the Sisters of the Poor. It matters to me. It matters enough it's swapping my vote in this election but hey. I'm one of less than 100 million, I'm in a trew blew machine state, and it really doesn't matter. But it does, again, to me.

Edit: actually, it's lotto. Duh. Cigarette taxes are just blackholed(~8 bucks a pack these days, lol. Regression ftw).

8 bucks is cheap. Double that here if not triple.

 

[RobAnybody]

I understand on a certain level all money is the same. Hell, its even all dreamed up since its fiat. But how we fund things matters because it matters. We're social creatures like that. We tax the **** out of cigarettes in Illinois, and theoretically all that money goes to education and smoking prevention. I know the government in the state is corrupt enough that it means that then education winds up defunded from other sources because there's that sweet sweet vice tax filling in where general revenue would otherwise have to go. But it still matters that we send the cigarette taxes to schools. Just like Hyde matters despite it all being imaginary monopoly money. It matters to the Sisters of the Poor. It matters to me. It matters enough it's swapping my vote in this election but hey. I'm one of less than 100 million, I'm in a trew blew machine state, and it really doesn't matter. But it does, again, to me.

Edit: actually, it's lotto. Duh. Cigarette taxes are just blackholed(over 8 bucks a pack in taxes these days, lol).

Look, I'm on your side when it comes to "sin" taxes. I oppose using taxation to "encourage morality", regardless of whether I agree with the moral in question or not. Given that it's a fact, I use it in pro-pot debates. I don't even smoke pot, just think "legalize it, regulate it, tax it, tax it, tax it some more" is a good argument. Really, same for prostitution - legalize, regulate it, tax it. I'm a little "l" libertarian at heart, but I know that's a dirty word around here & dip[poops] like Rand Paul have poisoned that term, so I don't use it

But Hyde is an imaginary boundary that doesn't actually exist. It makes some people feel good to have it in place, but it's literally useless. Nothing. You have $100. You receive $10 from the government. You now have $110. You tell people "Oh, wow, of the $20 we put over in this bucket, we totally like didn't use any of that $10 - that went in this different bucket". And fools are fooled. The Hyde Amendment is smoke & mirrors to placate people who don't know what the word "fungible" means.

 

[Farm Boy]

Right, there's your little ennui.

It's all the saaaaaame.

Doing the dance with the mirrors matters. Governance as performance art isn't a complete joke. The president is at least 50% cheerleader.

8 bucks is cheap. Double that here if not triple.

Pretty lame. Good thing everyone can afford houses, too.

 

[Patine]

Right here right now it's Trump or Biden pick your poison.

Don't vote or vote for a minor, in effect that supports Trump.

As a Canadian citizen, my "vote," is only the abstract support of a candidate that yours, @Gorbles', @Arwon's, @AmazonQueen's, @Kyriakos', @Takhisis', and the two Dutch posters with bear avatars whose handle names escape memory at the moment, among a few others. Being not able or eligible to vote in this United States Presidential Election (or other specifically rotten ones in my adult life, like 2004 and 2016), and not being judged by others or my own conscience for actually putting a "mark of approval," on one major candidate or another, or "shucking my civic duty, or throwing my vote away on a protest for a candidate who can't win, and being declared to help <such-and-such> win," is something I praise the Lord for along with other small mercies. But people who praise and support fatalistic and manipulative "soft-power tyranny," hoodwinks and rigged systems as being good, and that they must be supported, and to show stern opposition to, and a desire to majorly reform and make workable, palatable, and free-and-fair such systems, and call to account the criminals behind them, as not "living in the real world," - people like you, disgust me, and I consider to be toadies and cronies of the "soft-power tyrants," and enemies of any Constitutional electoral system or any sense of accountable or transparent government.

 

[Zardnaar]

As a Canadian citizen, my "vote," is only the abstract support of a candidate that yours, @Gorbles', @Arwon's, @AmazonQueen's, @Kyriakos', @Takhisis', and the two Dutch posters with bear avatars whose handle names escape memory at the moment, among a few others. Being not able or eligible to vote in this United States Presidential Election (or other specifically rotten ones in my adult life, like 2004 and 2016), and not being judged by others or my own conscience for actually putting a "mark of approval," on one major candidate or another, or "shucking my civic duty, or throwing my vote away on a protest for a candidate who can't win, and being declared to help <such-and-such> win," is something I praise the Lord for along with other small mercies. But people who praise and support fatalistic and manipulative "soft-power tyranny," hoodwinks and rigged systems as being good, and that they must be supported, and to show stern opposition to, and a desire to majorly reform and make workable, palatable, and free-and-fair such systems, and call to account the criminals behind them, as not "living in the real world," - people like you, disgust me, and I consider to be toadies and cronies of the "soft-power tyrants," and enemies of any Constitutional electoral system or any sense of accountable or transparent government.

Protest votes usually don't matter. This year they do in the USA.

 

[Arwon]

I think the very least people can do is not be, like, enthusiastic or personalising or twee about Biden/Harris. They're a grim necessity to restore and protect a bad status quo from an aspiring white supremacist tyrant with blood on his hands. But don't make a virtue out of that necessity.

 

[RobAnybody]

Right, there's your little ennui.

It's all the saaaaaame.

I'll own my ennui. I have, what 900-something posts over 11 years (I was reading before I registered even - the abomination that was Civ V "forced" me to step forward!). It's one of my best qualities. But money is literally the saaaaaame. I can use it to support a charity or to buy drugs or to hire a hitman. It doesn't care. If I give you money, you can say you won't use *my* money for Cause X, but rather for Cause Y, but that's just to placate me. Money is money.