2020 US Election (Part Two)

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Ajidica said:
I dunno, that's about all my friend group is talking about, even the non-political junkies.
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I read a lot of CNBC just to see what capitalists care about. The answer is "the stocks," of course, but I'll be very interested to see how they respond to this tomorrow. If it's anything less than large, bold headlines about how Trump encourages white supremacists, and that investors and business leaders are now abandoning him, that means that centrists and apathetics as a whole do not mind open white supremacy.

And of course that's what will happen. I have no doubts.
 
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Debate was a shitshow, or as one clever commentator put it a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. Pretty much all sides, even the propaganda machine (for the moment) are agreeing on this basic fact. And there is basically zero question who is being blamed for that outcome. The percent that "thought better of Trump" based on his performance is 15 points below what has been called "the floor of his core supporters... the people who would thank him if he dropped trous and dumped a steamer fresh on their dinner plate." If over a third of his core supporters couldn't muster the enthusiasm to say that he did great and really impressed them he clearly misspent his evening.
 
Phrossack said:
I read a lot of CNBC just to see what capitalists care about. The answer is "the stocks," of course, but I'll be very interested to see how they respond to this tomorrow. If it's anything less than large, bold headlines about how Trump encourages white supremacists, and that investors and business leaders are now abandoning him, that means that centrists and apathetics as a whole do not mind open white supremacy.

And of course that's what will happen. I have no doubts.
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Headline news over at The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-president-refuses-condemn-white-supremacists
Multiple journalists over at Atlantic condemning it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/cancel-debates/616544/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/trumps-losing/616543/
Fallows is actively condemning Wallace for his handling of it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/james-fallows-disgusting-night-democracy/616541/
Nothing on NYT yet, but they are probably collecting their wits. BBC tends to be late on the uptake with these sorts of stories.
EDIT: Apparently headlining on NBC as well:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...On60F9Eti5rWExjngbEAQAVmmJAGUH-UteN1umEavrHgE
 
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Biden beat expectations.



Also, later debates will likely have less viewership from swing voters, because why watch a circus. So Trump has no chance to make up ground, except an October Suprise. Which has almost as much chance of backfiring (getting Impeached trying to strongarm Ukraine), than help.

Phrossack said:
I read a lot of CNBC just to see what capitalists care about. The answer is "the stocks," of course, but I'll be very interested to see how they respond to this tomorrow. If it's anything less than large, bold headlines about how Trump encourages white supremacists, and that investors and business leaders are now abandoning him, that means that centrists and apathetics as a whole do not mind open white supremacy.
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Lots of both sides headlines

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1311134779283312642

The media trying to be a 'neutral' arbitrator, and actually helping the fascists.

The reason Trump is still at all in the race is that the media carefully distils his insanity and reports it as if he was just a normal but loud President.
 
Drakle said:
Biden beat expectations.



Also, later debates will likely have less viewership from swing voters, because why watch a circus. So Trump has no chance to make up ground, except an October Suprise. Which has almost as much chance of backfiring (getting Impeached trying to strongarm Ukraine), than help.
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I wonder if me thinking Biden did poorer than I expected going in was that I have fully internalized Trump being a boor, a crook, and a bully so that I was completely unsurprised by him For voters who don't follow the news as closely, they might only have seen Trump's Chopper Chat chopped into 20 second bits and no realized how incoherent and deranged the man is.
 
Ajidica said:
Headline news over at The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-president-refuses-condemn-white-supremacists
Multiple journalists over at Atlantic condemning it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/cancel-debates/616544/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/trumps-losing/616543/
Fallows is actively condemning Wallace for his handling of it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/james-fallows-disgusting-night-democracy/616541/
Nothing on NYT yet, but they are probably collecting their wits. BBC tends to be late on the uptake with these sorts of stories.
EDIT: Apparently headlining on NBC as well:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...On60F9Eti5rWExjngbEAQAVmmJAGUH-UteN1umEavrHgE
Click to expand...
Of course The Atlantic and The Guardian oppose it; but I was referring to CNBC. CNBC is almost entirely about how various events affect the stock market, with little commentary on society and politics in non-financial aspects. That's why I think it's a good way to check the pulse of the capitalists of the country generally. They'll take note of social movements and the need to pay lip service to them, but only in extreme cases like George Floyd. If they don't think anything of a sitting President openly giving orders to the Proud Boys, then I think it's reasonable to believe the centrists and apathetics generally won't mind either.
 
Phrossack said:
Of course The Atlantic and The Guardian oppose it; but I was referring to CNBC. CNBC is almost entirely about how various events affect the stock market, with little commentary on society and politics in non-financial aspects. That's why I think it's a good way to check the pulse of the capitalists of the country generally. They'll take note of social movements and the need to pay lip service to them, but only in extreme cases like George Floyd. If they don't think anything of a sitting President openly giving orders to the Proud Boys, then I think it's reasonable to believe the centrists and apathetics generally won't mind either.
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Good chance they simply haven't processed what it means.
 
Ajidica said:
Good chance they simply haven't processed what it means.
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I'll see what they say tomorrow, but I would be willing to bet money they will report that it was a "heated" or "intense" debate with "barbs on both sides."

I think it's because of the constant stream of insane and horrifying news, and the fact that most people of both sides will accept centrists, that the default American response will be either "I don't follow politics" or "both sides are bad." Opposing white supremacy is now a partisan and controversial opinion.
 
Trump did a fair job, albeit unconsciously, of revealing the banality of top politicians. Biden did a fair job of being banal. My opinion of both has increased and decreased, just in different ways.
 
WSJ site tonight was mostly neutral with deference to Trump. His Proud Boys comment was way down the page.
 
Berzerker said:
Oh thats right, the cops and Kyle Rittenhouse destroyed Kenosha. Never mind those videos showing the kid removing graffiti and putting out fires.
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Police started the vast majority of violent confrontations, but okay man.

Also, like how you rate photo op cleaning of graffiti as more important than two murders and a permanent maiming. Really shows your priorities.


Anyway, I say there are decent odds that Trump pulls out of the future debates citing unfair treatment. I say there is zero chance Biden pulls out of future debates.
 
Phrossack said:
I don't laugh at Trump or his goons because they're not funny. There is nothing funny about this. Trump is publicly normalizing political violence and all people will focus on is "haha he's orange" and "wow, what a child."
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The best part about this is knowing that there is no longer a possibility of escape from it.

If Biden wins the election, the right will assert fraud. If Trump wins the election, the left will assert suppression. And even if Biden wins the election unambiguously, Trump has demonstrated willingness to flex either the electoral college or his ownership of the Supreme Court to pretend he didn't see that. Regardless of the outcome, the results will not be accepted and political violence is all but an inevitability from the people who suddenly find themselves completely locked out from a legal means of effecting change.

The only timeline in which things can end with relative peace is Biden winning and Trump actually accepting his loss, but at this point I'd sooner expect the next Civ 6 DLC to be Tibet. Even then, so much has been destroyed so thoroughly that it'd take someone far ballsier than Biden to even start cleaning things up... and that's probably not happening for another 8-12 years, so RIP I guess.
 
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