2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Sommerswerd]

Yea that too.

 

[IglooDame]

Would be more like under 20%. 60 million or so. Or really less, ie whatever share of R voters you think are in the bunker with Trump.

That's still enough to start a civil war in the right circumstances of course, but it's smaller than it looks.

Fair point. I think maybe a third of R voters are actually Trumpists and would side with him in opposition to the rest of the R party. But I think 10% of R politicians will actually lead (or follow) them into the bunker. Lindsey Graham, for one, is going to recoil so fast he'll be sore the next day. The question is, how much damage can Trump do with (say) 10% of the population willing to follow him anywhere? He could easily turn into the white supremacist figurehead (moreso than he already has, I mean). Or does he play Republican kingmaker, able to deny particular Republicans election victories if those R-types don't pay him suitable deference?

 

[Lexicus]

For reference, the latest Gallup poll (Sep 14-28) has Trump at 94% among Republicans, up from 92% in the last poll which ran from Aug 31- Sep13.

 

[Estebonrober]

For reference, the latest Gallup poll (Sep 14-28) has Trump at 94% among Republicans, up from 92% in the last poll which ran from Aug 31- Sep13.

Obama kept up similar numbers as I recall among registered democrats. Frankly if you are registered to one party or the other its a sign you are not thinking about it much imo.

 

[Lexicus]

Obama kept up similar numbers as I recall among registered democrats. Frankly if you are registered to one party or the other its a sign you are not thinking about it much imo.

I'm registered Democrat so I can vote in the primary

Also there is the slight difference that Obama's administration wasn't the most corrupt and incomptent administration in the country's whole history

 

[IglooDame]

For reference, the latest Gallup poll (Sep 14-28) has Trump at 94% among Republicans, up from 92% in the last poll which ran from Aug 31- Sep13.

What's the 94% represent? Voting for him versus for Biden? Thinks he's doing a great job? Is happy he's got two and maybe soon three SCOTUS justices seated?

I see a lot of Republicans advocating voting for him only to prevent Biden from winning. Six percent of the GOP being NeverTrumpers is no surprise.

 

[Estebonrober]

I'm registered Democrat so I can vote in the primary

Also there is the slight difference that Obama's administration wasn't the most corrupt and incomptent administration in the country's whole history

This is true!

 

[Lexicus]

What's the 94% represent? Voting for him versus for Biden? Thinks he's doing a great job? Is happy he's got two and maybe soon three SCOTUS justices seated?

I see a lot of Republicans advocating voting for him only to prevent Biden from winning. Six percent of the GOP being NeverTrumpers is no surprise.

I've had this argument before. As far as I'm concerned people who still support him over Biden have already followed him into the bunker. I know we're not going to agree on this but I did want to provide a numerical measure of Republicans' support for him.

 

[RobAnybody]

I think I'm starting to feel the mood of the country. Trump's not making up the polling gap; he's got nothing with which to do so. There's a psychological phenomenon where people don't want to vote for a loser--don't want to have voted for the person who loses, and thus stay away from a candidate who's way down in the polls. And Trump doesn't even have the energy, right now, to push his "fraudulent voting" bid.

fwiw, I'm feeling this, too. Friends, coworkers, acquaintances, even some family members are starting to distance themselves from Trump. They're no longer defending him or trying to make his case. I'm getting more "both sides are bad" or "I'm voting 3rd party - you should, too!" rhetoric. They aren't full-on-Biden, but are doing the [posters on this site I won't name b/c that's rude] thing where they are like a pox on both their houses thing which makes losers feel better. But they are friends/family so I can't actually say that to them, but I can say that about them here I suppose.

 

[IglooDame]

I've had this argument before. As far as I'm concerned people who still support him over Biden have already followed him into the bunker. I know we're not going to agree on this but I did want to provide a numerical measure of Republicans' support for him.

And by that logic BernieBros that are voting for Biden are following Mr I Am The Democrat Party into that bunker, too?

There's Trumpists, and there's Republicans that tolerate Trump because he's (theoretically) a Republican their side. Lump them together all you like, but after November 4th (assuming a convincing Biden win) the reactions of each will differ.

 

[Arwon]

For reference, the latest Gallup poll (Sep 14-28) has Trump at 94% among Republicans, up from 92% in the last poll which ran from Aug 31- Sep13.

Absolutely but there's "favourably disposed from a comfortable distance" and "will vote for the R" on the one hand, and "following them into the bunker after they lose" on the other. There's bound to be plenty of attrition between the former and the latter.

Even a lot of the hardcore fans aren't necessarily going to risk actual hardship or adversity for it. The issue is more the way their general climate of loud hate and anger enables the fraction who will go towards violence and revenge and whatnot.

 

[Estebonrober]

And by that logic BernieBros that are voting for Biden are following Mr I Am The Democrat Party into that bunker, too?

There's Trumpists, and there's Republicans that tolerate Trump because he's (theoretically) a Republican their side. Lump them together all you like, but after November 4th (assuming a convincing Biden win) the reactions of each will differ.

Yea a much larger part of the voting block for Biden will constantly hold him to account and question his actions as opposed to the Trumpists. It took four years of constant dumpster fire policies and rhetoric to get any separation at all.

 

[Ajidica]

There's Trumpists, and there's Republicans that tolerate Trump because he's (theoretically) a Republican their side. Lump them together all you like, but after November 4th (assuming a convincing Biden win) the reactions of each will differ.

I don't buy that because we haven't seen any meaningful pushback from the "tolerate Trump" crowd on any topic. Blatant hypocrisy over ramming through RBG's replacement? Radio silence. That whole kerfuffle where Trump appeared to be running a shadow foreign policy with Ukraine and bullying them into opening fake investigations for domestic political purposes? We got some 'concern' from Collins and Romney, but that's it. The freaking baby cages? We got more 'concern' and some tepid opposition.

The 'tolerate Trump' crowd have had many opportunities to express dissaproval over the last four years and the most they have done is express 'concern', a pattern I see no reason to change come November 4th.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah sullen silence and cutting the guy loose when no longer useful is all we can hope for and expect tbh. The whole party with very few exceptions have shown plenty of acquiescence while he's been in charge and supporting their views. They should all have to wear that when/if he's successfully turfed from power.

 

[Lexicus]

And by that logic BernieBros that are voting for Biden are following Mr I Am The Democrat Party into that bunker, too?

What bunker? I thought we were using the bunker metaphor for Trump because he's an utter failure of a President and he hasn't committed to a peaceful transition of power and on and on...so what is Biden doing that's in any way equivalent?

There's Trumpists, and there's Republicans that tolerate Trump because he's (theoretically) a Republican their side. Lump them together all you like, but after November 4th (assuming a convincing Biden win) the reactions of each will differ.

Assuming. Otherwise refer to @Ajidica's response which is good enough. The things people will evidently tolerate from Trump because he's a Republican are already, at least to me, so disgustingly evil, that I would not be at all surprised to see them go right ahead and "tolerate" an outright usurpation of the election e.g. by the Supreme Court. And you can already see exactly how this is going to play out: the Texas AG trying to prevent to have one ballot drop box per county in Texas claiming he's protecting the election is your cue. The Republicans will steal the thing while claiming all the while they are just preventing the Democrats from stealing it.

But hopefully it doesn't come to that. Hopefully Biden blows him out. Hopefully...

 

[Arwon]

I would not be at all surprised to see them go right ahead and "tolerate" an outright usurpation of the election e.g. by the Supreme Court. And you can already see exactly how this is going to play out: the Texas AG trying to prevent to have one ballot drop box per county in Texas claiming he's protecting the election is your cue. The Republicans will steal the thing while claiming all the while they are just preventing the Democrats from stealing it.

This is 100% part of the acquiescence by other GOP as long as Trump is useful. Skewing elections with anti-voter rules is a long term Republican counter-majoritarian strategy, entirely independent of Trump. I guess the difference is Trump is, as ever, saying the quiet part out loud. And possibly going too far - a Trump tantrum throwing a contested election into doubt may result in a big enough backlash to undermine the counter-majority electoral skewing project!

 

[El_Machinae]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-doesnt-regret-advising-against-masks-early-in-pandemic-2020-7

Now where did people get the idea masks weren't needed?

Yeah, I know how the soundbytes eventually got interpreted. It just surprised me that they got interpreted that way. I was paying attention to a different level of the discussion, so that entire mask advice has been coherent the entire time.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Did I express support for kidnapping people somewhere?

Yes, implied. See below:

Topic of Gretchen Whitmer attempted kidnapping by extremist Libertarians, you said

Weren't these guys responding to a lockdown enforced by the police? Instead of throwing bricks at cops they went for the person giving the orders.

That sure sounds like supporting them, you seem to approve of their methods and reasoning. If this is not what you meant, and you think the actions of the extremist libertarians is reprehensible then I take it back.

Now we move to the strange part of your post on the above subject...

This woman is guilty of adultery

What??

the punishment is death by stoning.

WTH???

What say you, Jesus?

Seriously what!???

and dont spam us with 'both sides are sinners'.

Yeah, your not making much sense. How does any of your response relate to Gretchen Whitmer's attempted kidnaping, are you trying to change the subject or are you just being really weird!!?

 

[innonimatu]

On "russiagate": Crowdstrike will obviously finally collect pay (juicy public contracts will be offered...) if the government changes. And the politicians involved just can't resist preparing to make a a profit personally also.

 

[Lexicus]

Yeah, your not making much sense. How does any of your response relate to Gretchen Whitmer's attempted kidnaping, are you trying to change the subject or are you just being really weird!!?

Berzerker thinks that the meaning of the passage in the Bible where Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is that it is impossible to make moral distinctions because no one is perfect.