2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Phrossack]

Berzerker thinks that the meaning of the passage in the Bible where Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is that it is impossible to make moral distinctions because no one is perfect.

"Do not imagine that because others shared in the guilt of this enterprise, yours, is thereby diminished; but remember the awful admonition of your Bible, 'Though hand joined in hand, the wicked shall not go unpunished.'"

- Judge William Shipman, handing down the death sentence to Nathaniel Gordon for smuggling slaves, United States v. Nathaniel Gordon, 1861.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Me & my wife submitted our absentee ballots to the local ballot drop box today.
If anyone is interested who I voted for then click below (though anyone familiar with my posting on this thread will probably be able to guess who I voted for).

Spoiler :

Biden/Harris. For the other partisan stuff I went for around 50% Democrats, 40% Greens, and 10% Libertarians. So in summary if we get another 4 years of Trump, don't blame me!

 

[Berzerker]

Not sure why this isn't all over the news, but the Trump administration has been implicated in covering up gas attacks by terrorists we supported in Syria and blaming it on Assad.

Yes, implied. See below:

Topic of Gretchen Whitmer attempted kidnapping by extremist Libertarians, you said

That sure sounds like supporting them, you seem to approve of their methods and reasoning. If this is not what you meant, and you think the actions of the extremist libertarians is reprehensible then I take it back.

Angst said these guys were pro-police violence. I said:

Weren't these guys responding to a lockdown enforced by the police? Instead of throwing bricks at cops they went for the person giving the orders.

I was showing how both actions are anti-police, not endorsing throwing bricks at cops or kidnapping governors.

The FBI said they were mad about the lock down and wanted to attack and intimidate cops before thinking about Whitmer. The only police violence they were going to provoke would be against them. I dont know their biographies but I did see one of the ringleaders (Croft) had a decidedly anti-libertarian rap sheet so calling them extremist libertarians sounds like wishful thinking.

Berzerker thinks that the meaning of the passage in the Bible where Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is that it is impossible to make moral distinctions because no one is perfect.

No, I cite the story for people complaining about whataboutisms. Thats what Jesus did to the Pharisees, they condemned the woman and he said whataboutyou. If these guys are guilty of more than just talk, they're terrorists. They were planning on threatening cops and I assume their families and kidnapping the guv, they can enjoy a real lock down now.

 

[Drakle]

Video

Full video of just complete idiots, and also Qanon. It's going, mainstream baby. But it just proves the power of position signalling. Most people just adopt the position that they are told to adopt, once they adopt a party or ideological signifier, which is based more around culture. These rubes get told, you are Pro-life, and also get told 'masks suck', and they believe both despite the obvious contradiction. Raising a child for +18 years is on a different magnitude of a burden than wearing a mask, but they think it is fine to do that to women but can't stand wearing a mask.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Latest RCP shows Biden up 10.6% (52.3% to 41.7%) on the strength of a recent ABC/Washington Post Poll.

I'm starting to become hopeful that some of that "don't want to be caught backing a loser" sentiment that @Gori the Grey referenced is starting to set in.

 

[Gori the Grey]

The answer is maybe. He does have a track record of running things into the ground, then walking away while blaming others and claiming victory.

Yes, I think he might be inching into this realm. Guy does know how to lose (and it's "steal everything and let others foot the bill").

But hopefully it doesn't come to that. Hopefully Biden blows him out. Hopefully...

And, on top of that, Biden needs, I've been starting to think, a forceful stretch in his victory speech where he says "this is the country rejecting Trumpism." He needs to kick Trump when he's down, hard. I'll flesh out more fully what I have in mind when I have some time.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Thats what Jesus did to the Pharisees

No he didn't; you read that passage of the Bible incorrectly. I've grown sick of it, and I'm going to give you a theological beatdown. Again, when I have the time for it.

 

[aelf]

For reference, the latest Gallup poll (Sep 14-28) has Trump at 94% among Republicans, up from 92% in the last poll which ran from Aug 31- Sep13.

So Republicans are crappy/stupid, including the voters?

 

[Birdjaguar]

So Republicans are crappy/stupid, including the voters?

That is how they come across, but reality is different. Republicans don't like change unless it undoes changes they did not not like to begin with. They are selfish in that they want their world to remain like they want it and so they remain comfortable and unthreatened. They want their world view, even though it is a minority one, to be the dominant one. They are fearful and seek power to alleviate that fear. They want everyone to be like them and think like them, but when that doesn't happen, they like having enemies and an opposition to unite against.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

I dont know their biographies but I did see one of the ringleaders (Croft) had a decidedly anti-libertarian rap sheet so calling them extremist libertarians sounds like wishful thinking.

Regarding them being linked to the Boogaloo Bois, my source was this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54482846

Regarding the Boogaloo Bois being an extremist libertarian organization, my source was this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-53018201

The BBC are normally pretty reliable for news, but if they are wrong on either count, I will take your word on it, as it is not a subject I claim any greater expertise or interest in.

My original complaint was that I thought you were condoning the kidnapping of the governor of Michigan, which you have since clarified was not the case and have stated:

I do condemn them

Therefore we have no beef!

 

[Sofista]

That is how they come across, but reality is different. Republicans don't like change unless it undoes changes they did not not like to begin with. They are selfish in that they want their world to remain like they want it and so they remain comfortable and unthreatened. They want their world view, even though it is a minority one, to be the dominant one. They are fearful and seek power to alleviate that fear. They want everyone to be like them and think like them, but when that doesn't happen, they like having enemies and an opposition to unite against.

I have to ask:
Do Democrats like change, especially when it undoes changes they did like to begin with? Are they unselfish in that they want the world to remain like they don't want to? Do they want their world view, even though it's a majority one, to be the subservient one? Are they brave, and therefore don't feel like they need to win to get their point through? Don't Democrats want everyone to be like them and think like them, but when that doesn't happen, abhor having enemies and an opposition to unite against?

 

[Birdjaguar]

I have to ask:
Do Democrats like change, especially when it undoes changes they did like to begin with? Are they unselfish in that they want the world to remain like they don't want to? Do they want their world view, even though it's a majority one, to be the subservient one? Are they brave, and therefore don't feel like they need to win to get their point through? Don't Democrats want everyone to be like them and think like them, but when that doesn't happen, abhor having enemies and an opposition to unite against?

tldr: No.
If you look at US politics over the past 80 or so years, Dems have been much more willing to embrace change that improves the lives of more people rather than fewer. They have shown themselves more apt to compromise with Republicans in order to get legislation passed. As a party they are more inclusive of diverse populations and cultures and thinking. The Democratic party is often in a shambles because its members include such a wide variety of view points. The last four years under Trump have made them more focused; the last two recessions have opened their doors to more socialist ideas. Trump has polarized the nation such that Dems are looking like a much more coherent force than they actually are.

 

[Zardnaar]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us...g-ties-with-biden/XBQMEQGS3L7KZ6DO4QAK5KO2GY/

BoJo and co assuming Trump loses.

 

[Arwon]

I have to ask:
Do Democrats like change, especially when it undoes changes they did like to begin with? Are they unselfish in that they want the world to remain like they don't want to? Do they want their world view, even though it's a majority one, to be the subservient one? Are they brave, and therefore don't feel like they need to win to get their point through? Don't Democrats want everyone to be like them and think like them, but when that doesn't happen, abhor having enemies and an opposition to unite against?

It's probably helpful here to remember that the two US parties are barely political parties in the sense of permanent membership based hierarchical organisations with explicit platforms and processes, as we tend to think of them in Europe or Australia. The party that isn't holding the presidency has no single recognised leader and barely has a cohesive organisation at all, and the primary system makes it extremely easy for people with quite a wide variety of views and agendas and no particular party links or loyalties to get positions on ballots.

As a result, "Democrats" can mean any and all of "Democrat voters", "everyone running or elected under a D on a ballot at any level of govenrment" or the much smaller group of "famous high profile national level senior officials".

 

[Ironsided]

The opaque broad umbrella nature of the two major parties is a real problem for people who want actual change because they are essentially throwing their votes into a political machine that are less interested with the concerns of the voters that their own survival as power factors. The weight of lobbying, the dependency of donations and financial support from political action committees has reduced the elections to what is mostly political theatre. WWF with all actors funded by the same people. A four year cyclical repeating farse that has most people turned off by now.

The voter apathy has become a feature that feeds the loop of delegating matters into the hands of people “in the know”. –You just worry about your house and mortgage and leave the strategy of big arrows and small x-markers to the professionals. The professionals are on the donation payroll and turned complete political hacks whose intentions are more aligned with victory than personal conviction, much less representation. And that sets a new standard. Just read this thread these days and it is 90% about how terrible Trump is - and he is terrible. But like Ice Cube put it in a clip I saw circulating; when Biden wins and there is still 40 million unemployed, many uninsured –Now what? Where is our bailout?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Biden hasn't won anything yet, and could still very well lose, given all the shenanigans the Republicans are actively engaged in. However, no matter who was the Democratic nominee, nothing would have immediately changed the instant they were elected. The "what comes next" question would have been there regardless of who the Democratic nominee was. As I've stated, I hope what comes next is the Democrats shore up the levers of power so that they are in a better position to pass more lasting, more substantial legislation.

 

[IglooDame]

I feel attacked.

 

[Lexicus]

The 5th circuit court has indeed overturned the federal court ruling striking down the one-box-per-county rule in Texas. Three Trump-appointed judges. Ominously and in classic Orwellian fashion, they ruled that one dropbox per county actually expands access to voting.

I don't see how Biden can win. The courts are going to hand this election to Trump.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The 5th circuit court has indeed overturned the federal court ruling striking down the one-box-per-county rule in Texas. Three Trump-appointed judges. Ominously and in classic Orwellian fashion, they ruled that one dropbox per county actually expands access to voting.

I don't see how Biden can win. The courts are going to hand this election to Trump.

It's one big sleazeball circlejerk.

 

[Lexicus]

It's one big sleazeball circlejerk.

Let's not trivialize it. It's the right-wing legal movement paying off. It's the culmination of a movement which has moved into explicit opposition to one-person-one-vote democracy.