2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Timsup2nothin]

November 2020

Why is voter turnout so low? I just don't understand what we did wrong. This is Bernie's fault.

Yeah, enthusiasm is so much more important than the actual number! That's why Sanders rabid supporters were enough for him to win all the primaries.

Oh.

Wait.

Yeah, that didn't happen.

 

[IglooDame]

Trump will win again unless Joe gets Corona and kicks the bucket and Bernie runs

Probably belongs in the Prediction thread, yes?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Calling a constitutional convention can probably rewrite or amend the constitution. That scares a lot of people.

A convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution, also called an Article V Convention or amendments convention, called for by two-thirds (currently 34) of the state legislatures, is one of two processes authorized by Article Five of the United States Constitution whereby the United States Constitution may be altered. Amendments may also be proposed by the Congress with a two-thirds vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate.[1]

To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either—as determined by Congress—the legislatures of three-fourths (presently 38) of the states, or state ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states. Thirty-three amendments to the United States Constitution have been approved by Congress and sent to the states for ratification. Twenty-seven of these amendments have been ratified and are now part of the Constitution. As of 2020, the amendment convention process has never been used for proposing constitutional amendments.

While there have been calls for an "Article V Convention" based on a single issue such as the balanced budget amendment, it is not clear whether a convention summoned in this way would be legally bound to limit discussion to a single issue; law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen has suggested that such a convention would have the "power to propose anything it sees fit",[2] whereas law professor Michael Rappaport[3] and attorney-at-law Robert Kelly[4] believe that a limited convention is possible.

In recent years, some have argued that state governments should call for such a convention.[5][6] They include Michael Farris, Lawrence Lessig, Sanford Levinson, Larry Sabato, Jonathan Turley, Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro, and Greg Abbott.[5][7][8][9][10] In 2015, Citizens for Self-Governance launched a nationwide effort to call an Article V Convention, through a project called Convention of the States, in a bid to rein in the federal government.[11] As of 2019, CSG's resolution has passed in 15 states.[12][13][14] Similarly, the group Wolf PAC chose this method to promote its cause, which is to overturn the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United v. FEC. Their resolution has passed in five states.[15]

 

[cardgame]

Yeah, enthusiasm is so much more important than the actual number! That's why Sanders rabid supporters were enough for him to win all the primaries.

Oh.

Wait.

Yeah, that didn't happen.

It's not like enthusiasm directly impacts turnout or anything

 

[Tee Kay]

It's not like enthusiasm directly impacts turnout or anything

[numbers]

Tbh these numbers are useless without dates when they were taken, sample and sample size, etc

 

[Patine]

Yeah, enthusiasm is so much more important than the actual number! That's why Sanders rabid supporters were enough for him to win all the primaries.

Oh.

Wait.

Yeah, that didn't happen.

In some countries, if voter turnout is critically low, the election is annulled, new nominees have to made, and a brand new election is held (even in those countries this is, in practice, an extremely rare event). But perhaps it's not a bad idea, if voter apathy is having government decided by similar percentages of voters to pre-1994 South Africa, Rhodesia, or the Jim Crow Deep South (though obviously for different reasons, in the case at hand, candidates are just aren't worth voting for, and thus none of them deserve to win). Or maybe have a NOTA vote on the ballot, like in some of the former Warsaw Pact states, where it pretty much does the same as the critically low turnout event above (on paper, at least - it has never happened in any of those countries in effect), as opposed to Nevada's limp-wristed NOTA vote, where if NOTA were to win, the second-biggest vote-getter wins instead, and thus the point is lost.

 

[Patine]

Calling a constitutional convention can probably rewrite or amend the constitution. That scares a lot of people.

Of course, that article is irrelevant in terms of Congressional and State Legislature supermajority and such support if a new Constitution is established by the right of revolution, like the first one was (or at least, it's predecessor, the Articles of Confederation, which, itself, as a document, made no mention of mechanisms to be succeeded as a governing document - which is the basis of the Sovereign Citizen Movement, declaring the current U.S. Constitution is illegal and the Articles of Confederation are still the nation's legal governing document, just suppressed).

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not like enthusiasm directly impacts turnout or anything

I'm just curious what you are suggesting. Is it "Sanders voters are enthusiastic, so even though there aren't very many of them he should be the nominee"?

If that's the direction, I think we should go further. I will vote for you, and man I can put out enthusiasm like nobody's business! I mean, I am known for being so enthusiastic that I can get people to follow along without even knowing where I'm going, so I can give you voter enthusiasm like no candidate has ever had before. So even though you only have one voter, that would make you the best possible nominee.

 

[Tee Kay]

In some countries, if voter turnout is critically low, the election is annulled, new nominees have to made, and a brand new election is held

In some countries we made elections compulsory and ensured everyone has access to a ballot box

 

[Patine]

It's not like enthusiasm directly impacts turnout or anything

And this does mention TOTAL VOTER TURNOUT. Just some mysterious, undefined quotient you call, "Enthusiasm Gap."

 

[Birdjaguar]

Of course, that article is irrelevant in terms of Congressional and State Legislature supermajority and such support if a new Constitution is established by the right of revolution, like the first one was (or at least, it's predecessor, the Articles of Confederation, which, itself, as a document, made no mention of mechanisms to be succeeded as a governing document - which is the basis of the Sovereign Citizen Movement, declaring the current U.S. Constitution is illegal and the Articles of Confederation are still the nation's legal governing document, just suppressed).

The article is irrelevant regarding lots of unrelated topics. WTH. Revolution was not the issue I was addressing.

 

[Patine]

In some countries we made elections compulsory and ensured everyone has access to a ballot box

Yes, and in Austria (not Australia, but Austria), this has generated a lot of resentment over their presidential elections. Austria is one of very few Parliamentary Republics with a ceremonial, symbolic, ritual President (as opposed to one with a lot of power, like France, Poland, Serbia, Montenegro, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Armenia, Georgia, since the 2016 Constitutional Amendment, Turkey, and Croatia, though the level of power the Croatian President personally wields since the death of Franjo Tudjman seems to be, de facto, diminished greatly), but having a President with little more power than a modern European Constitutional Monarch or the Japanese, whose President is directly elected (I think only Ireland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, and for brief periods Estonia and Lithuania), unlike most other Parliamentary Republics with a ceremonial President, who is elected by the nation's legislative body, including all other European Parliamentary Republics of that form, as well as Israel, Pakistan, India, Singapore, Dominica, Guyana, and Trinidad and Tobago. Combine this mandatory voting, and the fact that most candidates for Austrian President are OBVIOUSLY running for a sinecure post, and many such elections are highly uncompetitive coronation, and the grumpiness and discontent becomes apparent. How would you feel about mandatorily voting for your Governor-General there?

 

[Patine]

The article is irrelevant regarding lots of unrelated topics. WTH. Revolution was not the issue I was addressing.

The short-sightedness of the Founding Fathers, who not possibly foresee the needs of the modern day and age, and who were paranoid of popular and necessary change and reform that wasn't drawn out over decades, and their hostility to citizens' initiative and contribution to government in a binding way outside of scheduled election cycles, shows their view of a Republic had not deviated much from Plato's book, and they made a document to hang all future generations of Americans by their "benevolent elder statesmen know best," vision, is what's really on display there.

 

[IglooDame]

The short-sightedness of the Founding Fathers, who not possibly foresee the needs of the modern day and age, and who were paranoid of popular and necessary change and reform that wasn't drawn out over decades, and their hostility to citizens' initiative and contribution to government in a binding way outside of scheduled election cycles, shows their view of a Republic had not deviated much from Plato's book, and they made a document to hang all future generations of Americans by their "benevolent elder statesmen know best," vision, is what's really on display there.

I started thinking that this was sarcasm.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/oldest-constitutions-still-being-used-today.html

We're #2! But we could take out San Marino any time we wanted to, so there's that.

 

[Patine]

I started thinking that this was sarcasm.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/oldest-constitutions-still-being-used-today.html

We're #2! But we could take out San Marino any time we wanted to, so there's that.

If I were to think of the grand military threat of the United States, Russia, China, and whomever else, I, myself, would take the advice of Sun Tzu,

"Sit patiently by the riverbank, and the corpses of your enemies of your enemies will float down to you."

Although daring to make no specific prognostications, I foresee a big shakeup in the world balance of power, and the Fall of Giants, but probably due to the affairs of food, water, and the house-of-cards global economic system that they have mostly been behind building and supporting, rather than being defeated on the field of battle (until Alaric sacks Washington, Generic sacks Moscow, and Oadacer sacks Beijing, and the shock is palpable).

 

[IglooDame]

If I were to think of the grand military threat of the United States, Russia, China, and whomever else, I, myself, would take the advice of Sun Tzu,

"Sit patiently by the riverbank, and the corpses of your enemies of your enemies will float down to you."

Although daring to make no specific prognostications, I foresee a big shakeup in the world balance of power, and the Fall of Giants, but probably due to the affairs of food, water, and the house-of-cards global economic system that they have mostly been behind building and supporting, rather than being defeated on the field of battle (until Alaric sacks Washington, Generic sacks Moscow, and Oadacer sacks Beijing, and the shock is palpable).

I certainly get it, but someone waiting for the inevitable collapse may be a corpse in the river themselves before the enemy bodies float by on the global flow of human events.

 

[Patine]

I certainly get it, but someone waiting for the inevitable collapse may be a corpse in the river themselves before the enemy bodies float by on the global flow of human events.

Good thing I don't personally consider any nation on Earth to MY enemy.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The host of NewsHour just said:

...there will still be, presumably, an election in November....

and that scared the crap out of me

 

[Patine]

But we could take out San Marino any time we wanted to, so there's that.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/oldest-constitutions-still-being-used-today.html

Of course no war in history was been fought to usurp a statistical record alone. And if such a war were, the leaders of said nation, any military willingly participating, and anyone in full support and agreement with such an effort would have abdicated their morals, ethics, humanity, and very soul, and just be a sociopathic, unfeeling, zombie shell, and not be worthy of being treated or viewed as a human being anymore. And that's something I'm sure you wouldn't want...

 

[Takhisis]

The host of NewsHour just said:

...there will still be, presumably, an election in November....

and that scared the crap out of me

Haven't you read that part in the ClownCar thread where Trump and the Republicans were quoted as outright saying that they restrict voting rights because otherwise they wouldn't win?