2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Birdjaguar]

the worst 4 in my lifetime are Johnson, Nixon, Bush 43 and Bush 41 in that order

nah, Obama's in there at 4th after Bush 43

war defines these presidencies

Damn, Lincoln must be way down on your list.

 

[Berzerker]

he's down there pretty far, granted it took 2 to tango in that dance

but what he did to the Indians drops him even lower

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I approach my scholarship in a very leisurely fashion myself.

 

[Ajidica]

Ray-gun Reagan misses out on your list; even though he tried to bribe Iranian mullahs in violation of US sanctions and didn't care when the NSC went badly off the reservation and took actions that Congress had explicitly said the US government was not do engage in?
Given how much crap you give Bill Clinton on US drug policy, I'm sure you have an equally intense opinion on Nancy Reagan's sanctimonious "Just Say No" nonsense.

 

[Patine]

I approach my scholarship in a very leisurely fashion myself.

But obviously run-down, excoriate, and try to invalidate everyone' elses scholarship taken in such a way...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But obviously run-down, excoriate, and try to invalidate everyone' elses scholarship taken in such a way...

Nah, just yours.

 

[Berzerker]

Ray-gun Reagan misses out on your list; even though he tried to bribe Iranian mullahs in violation of US sanctions and didn't care when the NSC went badly off the reservation and took actions that Congress had explicitly said the US government was not do engage in?
Given how much crap you give Bill Clinton on US drug policy, I'm sure you have an equally intense opinion on Nancy Reagan's sanctimonious "Just Say No" nonsense.

One of my buddies is a Reaganite, you should have seen the look on his face when I told him Reagan stole our weapons and sold them to Iranian terrorists to fund Central American terrorists. But I cant pin any major wars on Reagan so he cant compare to the perps of Vietnam and the Middle East wars we've seen since Bush 41. When our barracks got bombed in Beirut in '83 he wisely withdrew instead of declaring war in Lebanon. Instead he ran off and invaded Grenada, a much safer and less deadly war.

I dont think I ever gave Clinton much crap for the drug war, certainly not enough for what he deserves. I did give him some blame for insisting on following Bush 41's policy of 'containing' Saddam even after the WTC got attacked shortly into his 1st term. At most I mocked Nancy but I did repeatedly condemn Reagan for his drug war.

 

[Zkribbler]

Ray-gun Reagan misses out on your list; even though he tried to bribe Iranian mullahs in violation of US sanctions and didn't care when the NSC went badly off the reservation and took actions that Congress had explicitly said the US government was not do engage in?

And without a declaration on war, launched a sneak attack on Grenada.

'containing' Saddam even after the WTC got attacked shortly into his 1st term.

It was al Qaeda that attacked the WTC, not Iraq.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

One of my buddies is a Reaganite, you should have seen the look on his face when I told him Reagan stole our weapons and sold them to Iranian terrorists to fund Central American terrorists. But I cant pin any major wars on Reagan so he cant compare to the perps of Vietnam and the Middle East wars we've seen since Bush 41. When our barracks got bombed in Beirut in '83 he wisely withdrew instead of declaring war in Lebanon. Instead he ran off and invaded Grenada, a much safer and less deadly war.

I dont think I ever gave Clinton much crap for the drug war, certainly not enough for what he deserves. I did give him some blame for insisting on following Bush 41's policy of 'containing' Saddam even after the WTC got attacked shortly into his 1st term. At most I mocked Nancy but I did repeatedly condemn Reagan for his drug war.

Reagan restructured the US economy into a perpetual motion wealth concentrator so that he could drive two hundred million people on the other side of the planet into collective economic collapse and put them on the brink of catastrophic civil war. I am surprised that you give him a pass, because the scale of his "overseas adventurism" is absolutely breathtaking compared to the people you complain about.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

What is Sander's endgame?

 

[Ajidica]

One of my buddies is a Reaganite, you should have seen the look on his face when I told him Reagan stole our weapons and sold them to Iranian terrorists to fund Central American terrorists. But I cant pin any major wars on Reagan so he cant compare to the perps of Vietnam and the Middle East wars we've seen since Bush 41. When our barracks got bombed in Beirut in '83 he wisely withdrew instead of declaring war in Lebanon. Instead he ran off and invaded Grenada, a much safer and less deadly war.

Well, besides nearly spooking the Soviet Union into nuclear war with the Able Archer war scare, and spending billions of dollars to prop up African warlords and promote two decades of bloody conflict in order to protect a bunch of racists in South Africa.

@hobbsyoyo I would presume quietly drop out and hope the Bernie Bros don't notice and scream about how it is a DNC plot to steal the election from His Holiness.

 

[Patine]

Nah, just yours.

Shoo, mosquito!

 

[Patine]

Well, besides nearly spooking the Soviet Union into nuclear war with the Able Archer war scare, and spending billions of dollars to prop up African warlords and promote two decades of bloody conflict in order to protect a bunch of racists in South Africa.

@hobbsyoyo I would presume quietly drop out and hope the Bernie Bros don't notice and scream about how it is a DNC plot to steal the election from His Holiness.

And don't forget selling weapons ILLEGALLY to a nation he, himself, declared an enemy power (Iran) because he was so determined to ILLEGALLY fund a bloody-handed, brutal group of terrorists and butchers in Nicaragua (the Contras), even after Congress refused to pass the bill.

 

[Berzerker]

It was al Qaeda that attacked the WTC, not Iraq.

I know, but it was in response to our troops in SA to contain Saddam. Had Bush 41 left after expelling Iraq from Kuwait AQ wouldn't have declared war on us.

Reagan restructured the US economy into a perpetual motion wealth concentrator so that he could drive two hundred million people on the other side of the planet into collective economic collapse and put them on the brink of catastrophic civil war. I am surprised that you give him a pass, because the scale of his "overseas adventurism" is absolutely breathtaking compared to the people you complain about.

What are you talking about, the USSR? I dont see what he did that can compare to Vietnam and Iraq.

Well, besides nearly spooking the Soviet Union into nuclear war with the Able Archer war scare, and spending billions of dollars to prop up African warlords and promote two decades of bloody conflict in order to protect a bunch of racists in South Africa.

Do you consider that worse than what happened in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya and Syria? I'd have to see a comparable body count under Reagan before putting him in that ballpark.

 

[Patine]

What is Sander's endgame?

I have no idea. I'm pretty sure no one on these forums do either (and if they said they did, take what they say with a mine of salt). While don't you email him and aske him?

 

[Berzerker]

If I was him I'd hang around waiting for Joe to melt down. If he leaves an open convention could allow someone else to jump in. He doesn't have to campaign or even debate Biden - and Biden actually did well in their one on one - but he needs to be present if Joe has to drop out.

 

[Ajidica]

Do you consider that worse than what happened in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya and Syria? I'd have to see a comparable body count under Reagan before putting him in that ballpark.

I haven't checked, but all the Cold War proxy conflicts in the third world encouraged by Ronnie Ray-Gun are up there with the deaths in Syria and Libya - and Vietnam was a bi-partisan disaster that LBJ was trying to find a way to wrap up while maintaining an anti-communist deterrence in South East Asia. LBJ came close to a peace discussion, but Nixon wanted to use it as an election issue and told the South Vietnamese to ignore LBJs peace discussions.

Also, if we really want to get into the Vietnam blame-game, I would lay the blame for our involvement on Eisenhower in his failure to support the 1954 Geneva Accords.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What are you talking about, the USSR? I dont see what he did that can compare to Vietnam and Iraq.

We're still paying the price forty years later, and while the Mexican standoff went down without carnage that was far more luck than craft.

This is sort of a parallel with an argument I get in fairly often on my local news site. Every time a drunk driver kills somebody there is one or more of the local idiots shrieking for "the death penalty." I always ask them how one drunk driver who had the bad luck to get in a crash and kill someone should get the death penalty while another drunk driver who has the good luck to be stopped and arrested gets a fine and another drunk driver who happens to be a local political figure or a cop gets pulled over and sent home in an Uber. They always seem to think that their punishment based on end result somehow qualifies as fair, and I just don't get it.

So Reagan managed to put millions of lives at risk, but he gets a pass compared to presidents involved in wars that only cost a few thousand lives to me also doesn't make sense.

 

[Patine]

If I was him I'd hang around waiting for Joe to melt down. If he leaves an open convention could allow someone else to jump in. He doesn't have to campaign or even debate Biden - and Biden actually did well in their one on one - but he needs to be present if Joe has to drop out.

I haven't checked, but all the Cold War proxy conflicts in the third world encouraged by Ronnie Ray-Gun are up there with the deaths in Syria and Libya - and Vietnam was a bi-partisan disaster that LBJ was trying to find a way to wrap up while maintaining an anti-communist deterrence in South East Asia. LBJ came close to a peace discussion, but Nixon wanted to use it as an election issue and told the South Vietnamese to ignore LBJs peace discussions.

Also, if we really want to get into the Vietnam blame-game, I would lay the blame for our involvement on Eisenhower in his failure to support the 1954 Geneva Accords.

We're still paying the price forty years later, and while the Mexican standoff went down without carnage that was far more luck than craft.

This is sort of a parallel with an argument I get in fairly often on my local news site. Every time a drunk driver kills somebody there is one or more of the local idiots shrieking for "the death penalty." I always ask them how one drunk driver who had the bad luck to get in a crash and kill someone should get the death penalty while another drunk driver who has the good luck to be stopped and arrested gets a fine and another drunk driver who happens to be a local political figure or a cop gets pulled over and sent home in an Uber. They always seem to think that their punishment based on end result somehow qualifies as fair, and I just don't get it.

So Reagan managed to put millions of lives at risk, but he gets a pass compared to presidents involved in wars that only cost a few thousand lives to me also doesn't make sense.

Every U.S. President post-Hoover has lot of blood on their hands, usually in the most dirty and vile ways possible.

 

[thecrazyscot]

You guys are just proving my point that trying to rank the worst presidents inevitably just devolves into arguments without any real substance lol