2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Takhisis]

‘Hi, I'm Daria Takhisis. Go to hell.’

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No it wasn't it totally missed the point of having M4A. The point isn't that it responds better to a crisis naturally its that the people don't have to worry about doing their civic duty of helping respond to that crisis. Just like having all employees having sick leave and vacation time. It makes these decisions easy as opposed to completely fraught with difficulty.

The point was that the question asked wasn't about M4A. Biden used the question to make Sanders look like a head in the clouds "idea guy" rather than someone who could be the leader in a crisis, and it worked. At the same time he remade his more important point, which is that he isn't opposed to M4A in the first place, he's just got an actual practical path to get there rather than the "okay, burn health care to the ground and then we'll do this" approach that people associate with Sanders the self proclaimed 'revolutionary.'

Some bills are so awful that they cannot be voted for.

Sure. But that doesn't make voting against them a boastworthy stand for a better day. It's just token resistance.

 

[Patine]

The point was that the question asked wasn't about M4A. Biden used the question to make Sanders look like a head in the clouds "idea guy" rather than someone who could be the leader in a crisis, and it worked. At the same time he remade his more important point, which is that he isn't opposed to M4A in the first place, he's just got an actual practical path to get there rather than the "okay, burn health care to the ground and then we'll do this" approach that people associate with Sanders the self proclaimed 'revolutionary.'


Sure. But that doesn't make voting against them a boastworthy stand for a better day. It's just token resistance.

Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul had my admiration for voting in the House against the package of high legislative contempt, violation, and treason against the U.S. Constitution that was the "Patriot" Act, despite overwhelming support.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul had my admiration for voting in the House against the package of high legislative contempt, violation, and treason against the U.S. Constitution that was the "Patriot" Act, despite overwhelming support.

Great. Just notice that such votes don't demonstrate their "leadership."

 

[Patine]

Great. Just notice that such votes don't demonstrate their "leadership."

But they have the courage to point out flaws and betrayals in Bush's, which can be just as important in the long run.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But they have the courage to point out flaws and betrayals in Bush's, which can be just as important in the long run.

Somehow "well, I cast a meaningless dissenting vote that had no impact on the course of events" has just never struck me as being high on the list of heroic claims.

 

[Patine]

Somehow "well, I cast a meaningless dissenting vote that had no impact on the course of events" has just never struck me as being high on the list of heroic claims.

That's because you only see results - not convictions. In some circumstances, the former is blatantly impossible, but the latter speaks volumes to people who might gauge your leadership and the strength of your beliefs later. I thought that was a well-known and obvious factor of politics...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's because you only see results - not convictions. In some circumstances, the former is blatantly impossible, but the latter speaks volumes to people who might gauge your leadership and the strength of your beliefs later. I thought that was a well-known and obvious factor of politics...

I do admit that I appreciate my representatives actually accomplishing things.

 

[Patine]

I do admit that I appreciate my representatives actually accomplishing things.

Well, that's only possible if they're part of a political faction with the upper hand at the hand at the time, or otherwise have absolutely AMAZING powers of persuasion. Otherwise, it's not, unless they're going to sell out and abandon the principals they stand for, and campaigned on, to side with the faction(s) who hold power to be able to this claim. Standing up for what one believes in, and what one promised one's constituents, even against a great majority faction(s) of power and overwhelming popular opinion at the time, is far more valuable and admirable of political public servant than towing the line to take part of the credit for "actually accomplishing things."

 

[caketastydelish]

Sanders is a Senator, not a governor. He has an equal amount of power with other senators... if he were governor there would be more tangible, direct ways of “what has he done with his power”, but it is what it is.

All senators can do to begin with is vote on things, and his point is he far better track record with voting on bills than Biden does, as he’s right.

But he also brings forth ideas that were once considered revolutionary but are becoming more mainstream, and his charismatic ways has helped a lot of that, which he should also be given credit for.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, that's only possible if they're part of a political faction with the upper hand at the hand at the time, or otherwise have absolutely AMAZING powers of persuasion. Otherwise, it's not, unless they're going to sell out and abandon the principals they stand for, and campaigned on, to side with the faction(s) who hold power to be able to this claim. Standing up for what one believes in, and what one promised one's constituents, even against a great majority faction(s) of power and overwhelming popular opinion at the time, is far more valuable and admirable of political public servant than towing the line to take part of the credit for "actually accomplishing things."

I think Biden made an excellent case study illustration. The GOP was going to pass their bankruptcy "reform" bill no matter what. Sanders "stood on principle," meaning he cast his meaningless vote. Biden pushed through an amendment that prevented deadbeat dads from using the new bankruptcy law as an avenue to abandon responsibility for their kids. While Sanders is trying to paint that as "selling out," it did in fact make a bad bill that was passing anyway less bad. So who served their constituents better?

 

[Patine]

I think Biden made an excellent case study illustration. The GOP was going to pass their bankruptcy "reform" bill no matter what. Sanders "stood on principle," meaning he cast his meaningless vote. Biden pushed through an amendment that prevented deadbeat dads from using the new bankruptcy law as an avenue to abandon responsibility for their kids. While Sanders is trying to paint that as "selling out," it did in fact make a bad bill that was passing anyway less bad. So who served their constituents better?

You just don't seem to get it. It's almost 2:30 AM here, and I don't have the energy or desire to bang my head in vane against a brick wall here. Good night, and sweet denial and delusions - excuse me, sweet dreams...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You just don't seem to get it. It's almost 2:30 AM here, and I don't have the energy or desire to bang my head in vane against a brick wall here. Good night, and sweet denial and delusions - excuse me, sweet dreams...

I "get it" just fine. You are looking for "take a 'moral' stand great act of defiance" types. I don't agree, and think of that as useless grandstanding, but I get where you are coming from.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sanders floats delaying the remaining primaries. On the face of it, this is a good and responsible idea. In practice it is too late for the four tomorrow, and the Georgia primary scheduled for next week has already been pushed back so there's not a really pressing question here. Ideally, if tomorrow goes as expected Sanders can just give the "no path to the nomination" speech and withdraw so all the remaining primaries can just get pushed to June.

 

[Kyriakos]

A few months from now, the way things are going, Biden will be having someone write his own "What Happened" book.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Biden is just "make america great again" for the libs. He is a... lying dog faced pony soldier.

 

[cardgame]

I do admit that I appreciate my representatives actually accomplishing things.

The sheep was unable to convince the pack of wolves to abstain from eating him, therefore the sheep should be criticized for showing a lack of leadership.

 

[Farm Boy]

I do admit that I appreciate my representatives actually accomplishing things.

Well, there's grandstanding, and that's very much a spirit of the age. What do we not like? The grandstand is useful to determine what we do support.

As for votes that lose being immaterial, well, we go realpolitik enough and really the only things that matter become rape and murder, so eh.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Biden said he will pick a woman as a VP. WOW So progressive UwU omg I wonder who that will be? Hillary Clinton? And then he steps out? Well, that's one way for Hillary Clinton to become the first woman president. UwUUU

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The secret Hillary nomination is the dumbest of the conspiracy theories floating around