2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Zardnaar]

Why is the world suddenly, in less than two decades, full of a seeming majority of literal, linear, very short-term thinkers? It wasn't always this way, and it's very stultifying to carry on an attempt at discourse meant to be productive outside of tiny, separate boxes of isolated relevance. It seems to be a symptom of a slow-acting socio-political mass poison...

We all know you don't like the US 2 party system.

Until they can change it it's the reality we're stuck with.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Why is the world suddenly, in less than two decades, full of a seeming majority of literal, linear, very short-term thinkers? It wasn't always this way, and it's very stultifying to carry on an attempt at discourse meant to be productive outside of tiny, separate boxes of isolated relevance. It seems to be a symptom of a slow-acting socio-political mass poison...

There are a number of reasons:

(a) decline in traditional religious and philosophical beliefs
(b) mass car ownership
(c) development of fixed line telegrams and then telephones
(d) development of financial capitalism
(e) development of TV
(f) development of IT
(g) credit cards
(h) development of mobile phones
(i) the Internet
(j) social media

 

[Berzerker]

A mess...

Teleprompter reading + teleprompter choreography is the #1 criterion for choosing a POTUS?... or its somewhat important?... or not that important?... to you personally (the royal you) ... that's the question.

He wasn't reading, he had to think on his own... and it was, to quote you, a mess. Thats somewhat important... and funny. But my #1 criterion is the mess of dead people left in the wake of the various nominees.

 

[Sarah232]

Because I believe (now moreso ever with the coronavirus rampant) that we need more leftwing influence in politics, and Biden is the opposite of that. I know it comes down to electability, but the safe candidate was played in 2016, in my opinion. If people think repeating that is going to help, fine. I just don't think it will. I also genuinely believe Sanders will struggle to run in four more years time, and there's nobody else at the level who could pick up that kind of a policy platform. Maybe Warren?

We're heading into territory which is exposing the flaws of "austerity" politics, of "trickle-down" economics, and everything inbetween, at a rate and scale faster than I even thought possible (again: the virus - not helping. But structurally, before that also). Obama could've put his weight behind Sanders. A ridiculous idea perhaps, especially given his political past with Biden, but he could've done. A lot of votes are won and lost on messaging (and a bunch aren't, I get that - some people will vote for the safe option regardless), and I've seen way too much stigma around anything left-of-centre in the past four years alone - in both the US and the UK - to have time for it anymore. Additionally, the Democrats could've spent four years changing the message, however slightly, on more leftist (for America, which isn't saying much) policy. They didn't. The best we got were people like AOC (who are excellent, but also singled out for abuse and ridicule, in addition to being junior members of the party - without much actual support from mainstream elements of the party).

Labour in the UK at least tried this, and fought an openly-hostile press (amongst whatever mistakes they made themselves) as well as opposing parties. I guess I just wish the (mainstream) Democrats had remotely that kind of backbone. I don't see them beating Trump at this game the Republicans have gotten down pat. Maybe they wouldn't have with Sanders either. We're at the point now where it's pretty much "wait and see".

I have a rule of thumb, I try not to get involved in discussions that I'm not read-up on.

 

[Sommerswerd]

He wasn't reading, he had to think on his own... and it was, to quote you, a mess. Thats somewhat important... and funny. But my #1 criterion is the mess of dead people left in the wake of the various nominees.

At this point "various" is basically Trump and Biden... that's the only relevant comparison at this stage

 

[Estebonrober]

2 trillion in stimulus spending with checks going out to every family is going to be put on Trumps trophy case. Seven months until the election, I mean right now its definitely in his favor. Ffs the US is broken.

Biden is garbage and its going to be real hard to get people to go out and vote for garbage.

 

[Estebonrober]

I have a rule of thumb, I try not to get involved in discussions that I'm not read-up on.

This is explicitly not that kind of forum imo. You should discuss to learn imo.

 

[cardgame]

2 trillion in stimulus spending with checks going out to every family is going to be put on Trumps trophy case. Seven months until the election, I mean right now its definitely in his favor. Ffs the US is broken.

Biden is garbage and its going to be real hard to get people to go out and vote for garbage.

Garbage can get elected, but Biden is absolutely losing the thread of reality.

"and uh, in addition to that, uh, in addition to that, we have to, uh, make sure that we, uh, we are in a position, uh, that we are - well, let me go to the second thing. I've spoke for nothing. We can take, we we we can make personal productive equipment - look, here's the deal. We have to do what we did in the 40s and the 20s - the 2020s - tending to our elderly eld ones. This is the United States America."

no cuts, no jumps, no exclusions, no typos - he said 'eld' probably slurring together 'old' and 'loved ones' if I had to guess. Feel free to take a listen and a guess yourself. He also left out "of" in the US of A, which doesn't sound like a big deal, reading about it, until you audibly hear somebody say "United States America". Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Word for word hand transcribed by me from this which has loads more examples, some of them worse since it's video you can see.

edit: looks like I'm too late and you guys have already discussed the video I took this audio from. This is no broken teleprompter... this is a broken mind. This was prescheduled, no? If he was feeling ill or something he could have delayed it. This is his new normal...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Garbage can get elected

Trump conclusively demonstrated that being garbage isn't a disqualifier

Biden is absolutely losing the thread of reality.

Trump conclusively demonstrated that "absolutely losing the thread of reality" isn't a disqualifier

But still... you've convinced me... I'll vote for Bernie in the 2020 Massachusetts primary... again

 

[cardgame]

trump going against reality plays to his base's strength

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The stimulus package specifically excludes Trump & Co from getting any bailout money. (this appears to have been the main hang up in negotiations, along with other controls on businesses receiving loans and bailouts)

My earlier post was unintentionally misleading. The stimulus does expand unemployment insurance by up to an additional $600 (every week), which puts my napkin math for the benefit at about $34,000 per year, versus the ~$19,000 that unemployment typically maxes out at. Allegedly, this meets the full salary for most workers, which is where the confusion over 'full salary' in my previous post comes from because they didn't explain this until Sanders spoke to PBS last night. This is only for four months though, so no one is making the full $34k, I just did the math to make it easy to work with for budgeting purposes.

@Lexicus I believe everyone on UI gets the expanded benefit but I am not 100% sure.

They are also giving out $1,200 per adult as well for those making less than $75k/yr or $150/yr for couples.

SpaceX workers have been diagnosed which is no surprise given Musk's absolute refusal to shut his factories.

 

[cardgame]

Has anything actually passed yet?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Has anything actually passed yet?

Yeah it passed last night. @Estebonrober had a better write up:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-stimulus-package-2-trillion-senate-white-house/

• Direct payments of $1,200 to most individuals making up to $75,000, or $2,400 for couples making up to $150,000. The amount decreases for individuals with incomes above $75,000, and payments cut off for those above $99,000.
• Expanded unemployment benefits that boost the maximum benefit by $600 per week and provides laid-off workers their full pay for four months
• $367 billion in loans for small businesses
• $150 billion for state and local governments
• $130 billion for hospitals
• $500 billion in loans for larger industries, including airlines
• Creation of an oversight board and inspector general to oversee loans to large companies
• Measure prohibiting companies owned by President Trump and his family from receiving federal relief

That should level off the falls for a week or two.

Edit: It's been agreed to and will pass and be signed today.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

2 trillion in stimulus spending with checks going out to every family is going to be put on Trumps trophy case. Seven months until the election, I mean right now its definitely in his favor. Ffs the US is broken.

Cash payouts didn't work for the Republicans the last time they tried to buy votes, so it is far from a sure thing this time. In 2008 trying to campaign on "we gave you cash" ran face first into "you screwed up the economy so badly that you had to" and the GOP got bounced out of congress and the white house. The way D'ump is screwing the pooch on this pandemic do you really think that in November all anyone will remember is a check for 1200 dollars? In Trump's "best case" fantasy people are gonna be out of work for a month and that's not a month's pay.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yeah but with unemployment being massively expanded, many people will have their month's pay and the check. We all in CFC know the UI expansion was 100% the Democrats, but the voters are stupid.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Look for a Tea Party and/or 9/12'er revival following the election which will condemn the "Coronavirus bailouts" if the Democrats manage to win the elections.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah but with unemployment being massively expanded, many people will have their month's pay and the check. We all in CFC know the UI expansion was 100% the Democrats, but the voters are stupid.

Unemployment is going to be a massive CF. While the benefits are a great thing, and yes the Democrats did a good job fighting them in among the corporate pork, people who collect on it are going to remember the waiting in lines with hatred more than they will remember the money fondly and it is better if they associate the entire experience with the GOP

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Unemployment is going to be a massive CF. While the benefits are a great thing, and yes the Democrats did a good job fighting them in among the corporate pork, people who collect on it are going to remember the waiting in lines with hatred more than they will remember the money fondly and it is better if they associate the entire experience with the GOP

I hope this is true. I also expect at least the well-managed states to figure out how to implement this in short order.

Given the massive shifts that the Gov kicked off in education here in California, I expect us to have UI worked out. Hell, it already is 90% there. When I was recently on unemployment, I did everything by mail, the web or phone.

It's kind of wild honestly to see how quickly the state and at least the Riverside school district have moved to save the school year, feed kids and contain the virus. Makes me very thankful that my long-term plan to get my ass to Cali was a smart move.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I hope this is true. I also expect at least the well-managed states to figure out how to implement this in short order.

Given the massive shifts that the Gov kicked off in education here in California, I expect us to have UI worked out. Hell, it already is 90% there. When I was recently on unemployment, I did everything by mail, the web or phone.

When you were recently on unemployment there was a remarkably low number of people on it with you. The person handling your case was enjoying leisurely days and actively waiting for your responses so they would be able to contribute to their supervisor's "oh, no, we're not overstaffed" memorandum. Phone calls now are going to be put on hold for an interminable wait so you can get snarled at by a harried bureaucrat, and e-mails are going to pile up into masses of "well, if I just move these to a 'get back to this' folder my inbox will be clear and I can pretend I'm caught up and start from scratch." Social services workers do not respond well to increases in their workload.

 

[Estebonrober]

Cash payouts didn't work for the Republicans the last time they tried to buy votes, so it is far from a sure thing this time. In 2008 trying to campaign on "we gave you cash" ran face first into "you screwed up the economy so badly that you had to" and the GOP got bounced out of congress and the white house. The way D'ump is screwing the pooch on this pandemic do you really think that in November all anyone will remember is a check for 1200 dollars? In Trump's "best case" fantasy people are gonna be out of work for a month and that's not a month's pay.

I feel like what remains of the GOP base at this point is immovable and depending on the situation he might just get enough "lets not rock the boat" votes to landslide Biden. This is because Biden is basically brain dead.

I hope the dems keep the house and take the senate at least.