2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Patine]

Haven't you read that part in the ClownCar thread where Trump and the Republicans were quoted as outright saying that they restrict voting rights because otherwise they wouldn't win?

Without the dinosaur relic of the Electoral College, the Republican Party wouldn't be competitive in Presidential Elections unless they greatly reformed their platform and dropped their most odious elements.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, but then there wouldn't be a point to the Republican Party.

 

[Patine]

Yeah, but then there wouldn't be a point to the Republican Party.

Well, they did start as the Party of ending slavery, free homesteads in the West, government-subsidized railroads and industry, and even initial support to the nascent labour movement, at the time the Democrats were about the slave economy, agrarianism, and hard social conservatism. Wow! That almost seems like an alien alternate world, 170 years ago!

 

[Tee Kay]

How would you feel about mandatorily voting for your Governor-General there?

Moot question because we don't do it, because we're actually sensible.

Without the dinosaur relic of the Electoral College, the Republican Party wouldn't be competitive in Presidential Elections unless they greatly reformed their platform and dropped their most odious elements.

Eh. Neither major party candidate actually got a majority of the popular vote last time and the difference between them was only 2%

The Democratic Party is bitterly divided and the rift between Berniecrats and "Moderates" is not going to heal any time soon. The socialist wing of the party could even delude themselves that they can win most of the working class white vote and therefore split and try to run a third party campaign.

Hispanics will continue to assimilate more and more into the White American mainstream and a new generation of Black voters without a memory of the Civil Rights era will look around for alternatives to Democrats who've been running their states and cities for the past half century and failed to deliver progress.

The Republican Party will be competitive for the foreseeable future.

 

[Zardnaar]

Moot question because we don't do it, because we're actually sensible.



Eh. Neither major party candidate actually got a majority of the popular vote last time and the difference between them was only 2%

The Democratic Party is bitterly divided and the rift between Berniecrats and "Moderates" is not going to heal any time soon. The socialist wing of the party could even delude themselves that they can win most of the working class white vote and therefore split and try to run a third party campaign.

Hispanics will continue to assimilate more and more into the White American mainstream and a new generation of Black voters without a memory of the Civil Rights era will look around for alternatives to Democrats who've been running their states and cities for the past half century and failed to deliver progress.

The Republican Party will be competitive for the foreseeable future.

Tried pointing this out.

Under MMP the parties would break up. The Dems would fragment more.

The GoP could still win elections.

We've got a more liberal electorate, the highest a 3rd party has got is 13% they were centrist.

The highest a progressive party has got was 10% which can at the expense if their coalition ally.

I suppose NZ Labour might count as progressive by US standards. They got 37% last election.

Everyone "big man" with an axe to grind would go off to make their own party, the voters would thin them out to 4-5 with maybe some one seat parties in various areas.

 

[Patine]

Eh. Neither major party candidate actually got a majority of the popular vote last time and the difference between them was only 2%

It's not that simple. The Primary process is a grinder system that bottlenecks a bunch of candidates of each party, representing different ideological camps, into one candidate through a very unrepresentative, loopy system. Thus, if the candidate a given party member didn't vote for in the Primaries gets the nomination, they either hold their nose and vote for them, vote for a Third Party or Independent candidate, make a cheeky write-in, sit at home, or *gasp* vote for the other major party. A crappy set of choices if you ask me. Plus, every U.S. Presidential Election in my lifetime that has had an incumbent running for re-election except 1976 and 1980 (where in both cases the challenger was, frankly, a Hell of a lot better leader and candidate than the incumbent they were challenging) have had (read: ALLOWED) no meaningful or significant Primary challenge to the incumbent, making that party's Primary an effective coronation walk - meaning the voters of the incumbent's party get no meaningful referendum on re-nominating them and, if they don't the job they did, screwed as above. Thus, the popular vote totals for each candidate can hardly be called entirely true and sincere "support," but moreso "resigned lack of choice," in a lot of cases - FAR TOO MANY cases to continue to be acceptable to elected officials who TRULY DESERVE to have their offices.

 

[Zardnaar]

Rather than blame the polititians has anyone thought they reflect the culture of the voters?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Rather than blame the polititians has anyone thought they reflect the culture of the voters?

I keep trying to point that out...

 

[Patine]

The socialist wing of the party

You mean the Social Democratic wing. Ideologically, and by proper definition, the only REAL Socialist who ran in 2016, and I believe is running again this year, is Gloria de la Riva of the Socialist Equality Party ticket.

 

[Zardnaar]

I keep trying to point that out...

But sometimes Tim you make to much sense. This is CFC.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The host of NewsHour just said:

...there will still be, presumably, an election in November....

and that scared the crap out of me

If coronavirus is still a thing in November, there's not going to be any election.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Rather than blame the polititians has anyone thought they reflect the culture of the voters?

... more specifically I've repeatedly referenced the late George Carlin's excellent take on the subject... Quote:

The late, great George Carlin delivered a comprehensive answer to exactly this question. There's really no way I can say it better and it only takes a mere 1:30 minutes... enjoy:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ge-of-the-clowns.609483/page-86#post-14840661

Trump, like all POTUSes, is nothing but an Avatar of the essential character of the country. As I've said before, the POTUS is a mirror, a reflection of what the people of this country are about.

I've said it before and I will say again... (paraphrasing George Carlin) We got exactly the President we deserved.https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/clown-car-iii-whos-laughing-now.625777/page-189#post-15176348

Ooh... Do I get a credit then?

Also, George Carlin... since my "President we deserve" line was inspired by this: (WARNING Bad words

Spoiler NSFW :

Also... Batman Begins... Gary Oldman (as Commissioner Gordon)'s final line about Batman being "the hero we deserve but not the one we need right now"

Also... Isn't "We're all scumbags" satire?

To paraphrase George Carlin... Because American Politicians are what our system produces... this is the best we can do... they come from American homes and American schools and American towns... so as long as you have selfish, ignorant, citizens, you're going to have selfish, ignorant, leaders... its not the politicians who suck... its the public.

TL;DR - It's not the politicians who suck... its the public who sucks.

 

[Farm Boy]

I mean, look at the shows they like. The socially acceptable ones. It's a reflection of their open fantasy.

 

[Samson]

... more specifically I've repeatedly referenced the late George Carlin's excellent take on the subject... Quote:

TL;DR - It's not the politicians who suck... its the public who sucks.

I am not sure how serious you are, but it appears that american politicians are more selfish and ignorant than most of the west, and from my experience I do not believe that americans are more selfish and ignorant than most of the west so there must be something else going on.

 

[Farm Boy]

I bet your politicians are better insulated from the eyes of Sauron.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I am not sure how serious you are, but it appears that american politicians are more selfish and ignorant than most of the west, and from my experience I do not believe that americans are more selfish and ignorant than most of the west so there must be something else going on.

There is something else going on...you are being insulated from the vast bulk of USians.

 

[Samson]

I bet your politicians are better insulated from the eyes of Sauron.

I was thinking about the why, and if you replace Sauron with Mammon I would agree with you.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I am not sure how serious you are

Pretty serious... all in good fun of course, but still. The party nominees of 2016 were a nearly perfect reflection of the culmination of decades of American political values. You can even simplify what the primary attracting factors were to the candidates and it's a spot on pulse of what the American voter prioritizes...

Candidate A- 1) Rich & Famous (TV personality/celebrity) 2) New/Exciting/anti-status quo (Not a "career politician") 3) Controversial/Entertaining (charismatic, obnoxious, funny, rude, racist, sexist, etc.)
Candidate B- 1) Rich & Famous (political celebrity) 2) New/Exciting/anti-status quo (First woman nominee) 3) "Experienced" (familiar career politician/comfort food/anointed/"their turn" etc.)

Trump is an excellent avatar of American society... excellent... He's our veritable portrait of Dorian Gray.

 

[Traitorfish]

Rather than blame the polititians has anyone thought they reflect the culture of the voters?

Unclear why these should be considered mutually-exclusive options.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Unclear why these should be considered mutually-exclusive options.

It's not so much mutually exclusive as it is an acknowledgement that the politicians are, in a sense, doing their intended job. Of course, it also closes that convenient loophole to irresponsibility. USians in about ten years are going to be desperately saying "that was just Trump" the same way we are saying "that was just Bush" now. Saves looking in the mirror.