MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Rik Meleet said:
Wow, you forgot to include Religious Fundie to your list.
3rd Political murder in The Netherlands (?)
- Thread starter Rik Meleet
- Start date
Wow, you forgot to include Religious Fundie to your list.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
It's occured to you there can be people who the fundies don't hate?MobBoss said:
They are in the list. And I mean - "Rightwinger", not - "Mentally sick man".MobBoss said:
They aren't mentioned as possibility. I don't know why. I do have a theory though.
Religious Fundamentalists are by definition a group of people who have fundamental principles of Religion that they want to base their lives on. This makes them not so eager to be forced to change their lives into a way that is not conform -or even against- their own principles.
People with a left wing opinion, including Louis Sévèke, are generally not interested on telling people how they should live. Left wingers generally are concerned about giving everybody the chance to live how they want to live. Right wingers tend to enforce their ideal-view of lifestyle upon others, for example by forbidding to marry the person you love, regardless of gender, or including into an education system the beliefs of the religion the majority of the inhabitants of that country has.
So: Religious fundies have no reason to go for leftwing people as they don't try to change them.
SonicX
Emperor
Because they have this image of jolly good, tolerant fellahs in the rest of the world.knorman said:
We know better
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
Rik Meleet said:
It is my opinion, leftwingers want to tell how life should be lived......
This surprises me Rik.....
Typical (Dutch) left-wingism is about taking away liberties from individuals.....
Maybe you are refering to right-wing conservatives...
But the the typical Dutch right-winger is most certainly NOT into enforcing anything on others.
Stapel:
Do you agree that Religious Fundamentalists are not talked about as possible killers in this murder ?
And I'm certainly interested in exploring our differences in views on Leftwing-Rightwing principles, but not in this thread.
Do you agree that Religious Fundamentalists are not talked about as possible killers in this murder ?
And I'm certainly interested in exploring our differences in views on Leftwing-Rightwing principles, but not in this thread.
AceChilla
Goedheiligman
SonicX said:Because they have this image of jolly good, tolerant fellahs in the rest of the world.
We know better
Aren't we great at keeping up appearences
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
It indeed seems unlikely some reli-nut is behind this.Rik Meleet said:
However, I can't really get my finger behind the motives of religious fundamentalists. Who knows? They're nuts, so it's dangerous to predict their ways.
But I agree to some kind religious fundamentalists are not talked about as possible killers in this murder.
Quite frankly, I lack any idea what kind of group/ideology/agenda could be behind this.
The AIVD seems the only somewhat logical option, but I can hardly imagien that.
Well, you're probably right.
But I must say that the idea that right-wingers tend to enforce their ideal-view of lifestyle upon others is a totally bogus statement in the Netherlands
Since when became Theo's murder a political one 
I don't know if other people have seen that movie "submission" which probaly caused his assasination? It was really an abomination. Could make exactly the same about the christian believe.
Freedom of speach is a valuable thing, but it does not give you the right to just speak out everything you think. If he had made a mivie like that about jews he would have been arrested and put away. But because it's about moslims it's ok?
Murder is never ok, but he was callign a bit for it I think. What do you think will happen when you wear as sign "I hate niggers" in Harlem? That would be suicide as well, and everyone would have called you crazy and think it was your own fault.
I don't know if other people have seen that movie "submission" which probaly caused his assasination? It was really an abomination. Could make exactly the same about the christian believe.
Freedom of speach is a valuable thing, but it does not give you the right to just speak out everything you think. If he had made a mivie like that about jews he would have been arrested and put away. But because it's about moslims it's ok?
Murder is never ok, but he was callign a bit for it I think. What do you think will happen when you wear as sign "I hate niggers" in Harlem? That would be suicide as well, and everyone would have called you crazy and think it was your own fault.
I guess you're one of those people who think that a woman who gets raped whilst wearing a short skirt also deserves it, huh?nerovats said:Since when became Theo's murder a political one
I don't know if other people have seen that movie "submission" which probaly caused his assasination? It was really an abomination. Could make exactly the same about the christian believe.
Freedom of speach is a valuable thing, but it does not give you the right to just speak out everything you think. If he had made a mivie like that about jews he would have been arrested and put away. But because it's about moslims it's ok?
Murder is never ok, but he was callign a bit for it I think. What do you think will happen when you wear as sign "I hate niggers" in Harlem? That would be suicide as well, and everyone would have called you crazy and think it was your own fault.
bad_ronald
All Knowing
Yes, it does! Freedom of speech means being able to speak your mind, don't bastardize the term by using it like that.nerovats said:
Here's a thought: someone who makes a movie like that about any ethnic group for any reason should not be arrested; you should fight claims you believe to be untrue with contradictory facts. This notion that it's okay to jail people for their opinions is exactly like the various inquisitions of Medieval Europe. You should feel nothing but indignation if your government jails people for thoughtcrime, and only shame that you haven't spoken out against it.
What do you think will happen to Western society when the average Westerner thinks as you do... this is, of course, unanswerable: there will be no West.
Wow, this statement is just appalling. Do you believe that a woman who had a little too much to drink deserves to get raped? Or people who have unprotected sex, do they deserve to get HIV?
I never said it would have been ok to jail him for making that movie. I said he would have been jailed if it was about jews.
Yes, I believe people are responsable for their own actions. I've seen 16 year old girls wearing shirts with the text "Rape Me". I'm not saying it's ok to do so, but I do think they are partly responsible.
So you guys think you will walk out of Harlem alive wearing the sign?
I don't think people will come up to you and, just call you a bad boy.
Yes, I believe people are responsable for their own actions. I've seen 16 year old girls wearing shirts with the text "Rape Me". I'm not saying it's ok to do so, but I do think they are partly responsible.
So you guys think you will walk out of Harlem alive wearing the sign?
I don't think people will come up to you and, just call you a bad boy.
... If you want to discuss Theo van Gogh or "freedom of speech"; please open a new thread and keep this thread for the murder on Louis Sévèke.
Sorry for the detour.
It's probably to early to draw conclusions, but it definatly looks like a political murder to me. Can't think of anyone who would do this, espcailly as he was a researcher, not just someone who was just shouting everyting is wrong like a lot of people are doing here (in the Netherlands that is). Hope they'll find out who did this.
Condolences to his family
It's probably to early to draw conclusions, but it definatly looks like a political murder to me. Can't think of anyone who would do this, espcailly as he was a researcher, not just someone who was just shouting everyting is wrong like a lot of people are doing here (in the Netherlands that is). Hope they'll find out who did this.
Condolences to his family
Today, 3,5 days after the murder and still nothing more is known. The police have heard over 100 witnesses and have put over 35 detectives on the case.
I don't know what to think of the radio-silence. On 1 side it is good that no news is released until it is a proven fact; to prevent finger-pointing and blame-putting and "retaliations". Also it keeps the shouters quiet, unlike the PF and TvG murders, when many mosques, churches and religious schools were burned down in the aftermath (sp?). On the other side this is giving the signal that the radio-silence from the side of the police could be a signal that the killer can be found from their direction, or from the secret service (AIVD). I still can't believe that, like Stapel, but thoughts tend to go in their direction more and more frequently. History has shown often enough that the reality can be worse than the unthinkable.
I don't know what to think of the radio-silence. On 1 side it is good that no news is released until it is a proven fact; to prevent finger-pointing and blame-putting and "retaliations". Also it keeps the shouters quiet, unlike the PF and TvG murders, when many mosques, churches and religious schools were burned down in the aftermath (sp?). On the other side this is giving the signal that the radio-silence from the side of the police could be a signal that the killer can be found from their direction, or from the secret service (AIVD). I still can't believe that, like Stapel, but thoughts tend to go in their direction more and more frequently. History has shown often enough that the reality can be worse than the unthinkable.
Finally - a breakthrough.
This morning on the news: Police have arrested a suspect.
This morning on the news: Police have arrested a suspect.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Doesn't make sense. Muslims have no reasons to kill him.
I just read on teletekst that he has confesed. (Page 103)
It was a "kraker"friend of Sévèke. He was a bankrobber.
He was arrested in an internetcafe in Barcelona and the Dutch police has had assitance from the American, Brazilian, Spanish and Belgian police.
edit: The police say that it was not a political murder.
It was a "kraker"friend of Sévèke. He was a bankrobber.
He was arrested in an internetcafe in Barcelona and the Dutch police has had assitance from the American, Brazilian, Spanish and Belgian police.
edit: The police say that it was not a political murder.
It's stereotypical, and probably drives the Dutch crazy, but I admit when I think of the Netherlands, I think of smiling people in tulip fields with wooden windmills overhead. I don't think of potential political assassinations.
It's stereotypical, and probably drives the Dutch crazy, but I admit when I think of the Netherlands, I think of smiling people in tulip fields with wooden windmills overhead. I don't think of potential political assassinations.
don't forget the clogs
anyway, so it was a 'personal' murder? and btw, what's a 'kraker'?
