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9 Dead in Munich Shooting

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ls612, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    At least that should put to rest the neo-nazi theory, unless the german neo-nazis are taking in iranians (them being "aryans" and all :rolleyes: )

    What's with people neat the places of these attacks walking around with their hands on their heads? IS police so trigger-happy in Europe that the citizens victims of terrorist attacks must be ordered to behave as prisoners?
    There may be a rationale to justify this, but I find it extremely offensive. Noticed in the in photos of Nice and I'm seeing it again now.
     
  2. kronic

    kronic Chieftain

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    I wondered that, too, but I haven't heard an explanation yet. German police is usually relatively soft and not everyone had their hands there.

    Let's wait for the investigation results now but I do think the story I mentioned above will be the final explanation for this. The roof top video from earlier leaves the impression of a whiney guy and not that of a warrior for the true faith.
     
  3. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    LOL these people are constantly wrong about EVERYTHING. The brainwashing is real.

    The left is a sad joke and they're just beginning to reap what they've sown and they couldn't deserve it more.

    Moderator Action: This and other recent posts of you are utterly unacceptable both within general rules of this site and the call to not be a jerk that is more OT-specific. Please adhere to the rules in the future -ori
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  4. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    "The left" has as many variants as "the right", and it was not certainly "the left" that opened Europe's borders - it has been government by center or right-wing parties for decades now.
    I'll also point out that most of "the left" has traditionally been suspicious of religion as it intersects politics, when not outright hostile to it. It's the right that traditionally played on religion for political ends...

    The "new left", that's a different animal. And a misnomer.
     
  5. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    The left that has been screaming to bring in the trash that's attacking everyone and anyone who was opposed to it was a called racist, hater, nazi, bigot. I hope they enjoy the jihadis and the government crack-downs.

    Obama and socialist Europe is center, or center right? Yah, I don't think so. People here still believe that Obama didn't nearly double the deficit from 10T to over 19T in less than a decade. They only know the lies they've been told. The left wing establishment played them like fiddles.
     
  6. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Where I live it went like this: The Right takes in immigrants for economic reasons and refuse to give them citizenship, Left naturalizes them for humanitarian reasons, then gets blamed for everything regarding immigration.

    Of course, whether the Right or Left is pro-immigration or anti-immigration is sensitive to context, though not much; The right may be favourable to immigration in the prospect of economic growth, though Anti-immigration discourse in general will be naturally slanted to the right because the right by definition aims to proect the current political order, which immigration will certainly overturn in large enough numbers.

    What's your view of the new left in regards to the left in general, precisely?
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Muslim terrorists are right wing nutjobs.
     
  8. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    So why'd you all bring them in and constantly make excuses for muslim terrorism? :lol:

    The right told all of you over and over and over again exactly what they were going to do after you brought them all here.
     
  9. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    That is a definition that is technically correct, but does not match the reality of the decades after the 1960s.
    Basically, the "left" won in economics after WW2. And it won in social organization in the 60s. Thus the left became the political order. The right then became the opponents of that political order, seeking to roll back things. During the 80s and 80s they succeeded in economics, but failed in rolling back social changes.
    What had once been the left, the parties and organizations of the left, gave up fighting on economic issues, and decided to focus on what had already been won: social issues. The easy path. But society is conditioned by economics: the distribution of wealth and income, inequality... if many of the social institutions are organized on a "market basis" then the inequality of wealth becomes as important as social inequality (inequality of status) once was.

    The new left = Tony Blair and his imitators. I could blame Mitterrand and others, I know, but Tony Blair and later Bil Clinton (who I think changed policies to imitate Blair, though I may be wrong about who inspired whom) were the ones who spread it.
    The "home cause" of the new left, identity politics = divide and rule as a gift to the hoarders of wealth.
    The "foreign cause" of the new left, interventionism = the new imperialism.

    The (traditional) left was materialistic: progress requires resources, development should be carried out, under pragmatic political guidance, in order to improve people's lives. The goal should be to maximize individual freedom by providing for the needs of all: "after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly - only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" Positive liberty.

    The "new left" is idealistic: resources are not an object of political decisions, the "market" will better take care of allocating them. This leads to increasing inequality of wealth that is to be alleviated through subsidies, not by changing social organization or carrying out policies to empower a broader group of people, such as full employment. Development is no longer seen as an uplifting force, in some circles associated with the new left the opposite is defended: development is bad and must be subordinated to ideological considerations such as global warming (now "climate change"), environmentalism, and "free" trade. Individual freedom is to be maximized by allegedly removing social restrictions upon individuals (thus identity politics). Negative liberty.

    The (traditional) left defended an inherent collaborative bias in human beings, seeking to enable a "better humanity" through the offer of free education. People were expected to do better through education and political discussion that free from the distortions (propaganda) caused by special interests groups (religions, businesses, etc) and class opposition. Educations should be secular, scientific and free, artistic creation should be free and freely accessible (no patents, no copyright).
    People would naturally, rationally create a better society once the restrictions on resources and education were lifted.

    The "new left" defends an inherent oppositional bias if human beings: it is natural for individuals to be unequal and a free market is necessary to deal with that; material inequality is accepted as a given. Nor even education or the arts are to be spared from that logic of the market. You are worth what you can sell or beg. It is natural for different people to hold different and even opposing "identities" and those should be accepted and encouraged. Organized special interest groups are welcome in the interest of "diversity".

    The "new left" makes me sick. there is no positive agenda, no hope for a better future, in it. It's all about management of the status quo. No surprise that we are going through an age of despair and escapism: politics, the real world, offer no hope for improvement.
     
  10. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    EU was too open and asleep it seems. Now sadly is paying a steep price
    I hope that more is done to screen immigrants and tackle radicalization
     
  11. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    That's the problem with lone wolves. They dont have to be a "true believer" to be motivated by radicals into doing something. Mentally ill are if anything even more easily malleable to do something violent for "the cause", even if they arent super fanatical. Like the guy down in Orlando, clearly he had mental health issues, but clearly he also bought into the violent antics "islamic" state sells
     
  12. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    I really have no idea how "screening immigrants" is supposed to work in this context.
    There are question techniques to weed out the not that good liars (which surely catches some since lying will be the general course of action in the situations the refugees find themselves in). Like how detailed are the accounts, do the accounts feel studied. But if someone got that down - and to lie well is not some masterful art, everyone can achieve it given sufficient effort - you don't have much left.

    It may work for the USA which only hand-picks a tiny amount of refugees under very tight conditions. For a nation facing a whole mass of them and being legally required to take them in - there is no remotely reliable screening, let's face it.
     
  13. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    What truly scares me more about these attacks than the danger of terrorism is the danger of the response of the fascist right wing.
     
  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I agree with you in some ways, not in others. Identity politics is a lot more ubiquitous than people seem to think - it hardly started with the left. Indeed given the way premodern society worked one might say that identity politics constituted politics as such. It's our notions of politics being conducted along ideological lines that's the relative newcomer.

    I would argue that the market fundamentalism of the left renders it toothless. Sooner or later it's going to hurt the "new left", if the right is offering all the solutions to the social dislocations of the market.
     
  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Me, too.
     
  16. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

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    These are not the "trash that's attacking everyone." These are people fleeing for their lives from the trash that's attacking everyone. There's a difference between being a victim and being a perpetrator.

    This reminds me of the incident of the caregiver who ran out to rescue his autistic charge. He ended up laying on his back with his hands in the air begging the police not to shoot the autistic guy, who was merely holding a toy truck. One of the police fired three times, hitting the unarmed caregiver. Then the police ran up and clamped three (3) pairs of handcuffs on him and left him bleeding in the street.

    It is necessary to distinguish between the good guys and the bad guy. Then, shoot only the bad guys.
     
  17. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    He's talking about the massive number of economic migrants that have been accumulating in Europe for a few decades now (at least, to my knowledge; it may be more recent I suppose).

    This is not really the work of "the left" so much as of market fundamentalism.

    But anyway, the real point here is that he's like a dog slobbering over the meat that ISIS & Co have put out.
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    From what CNN is saying this guy looks more like a Trumpist than a jihadist.

    "I am a good German, and you immigrants are stealin' our jerbs!!!!"

    Hate boiled over and dude had to kill himself and didn't have the good sense to not take a bunch of innocents with him. Sad.
     
  19. KMRblue1027

    KMRblue1027 The Crown!

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    Even if this was religiously motivated, which for now evidence points to the contrary, it's extremely unlikely there's much more to the story than a bad lone wolf attack. I mean he's a German citizen born in the country, has an Iranian father so he's very likely Shia if religious at all, so ties to groups like ISIS is out of the question. Maybe Hezbollah or something like that but they typically keep away for antagonizing the west, their scope is more focused on Sunni groups and Israel.
     
  20. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Blackpilled Idealist

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    OK, a few quick things:

    We don't know if he was a muslim or not. Many Iranians here are either completely indifferent or outright disdainful of religion.
    We do know that this guy was born in Germany. Being born here to foreign nationals is the only way to have dual citizenship.
    We also know -from a short exchange caught on camera- that he identifies as German and was in a mental hospital.
    It's not the first time a young man has started shooting people and then killed himself. This kind of thing used to happen a few times in the 2000s. It's just that the shooters were usually of German heritage and chose their (former) school for the spree.
     

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