A lesson on philosophy due to a lesson on English and German language

[Terxpahseyton]

The conclusion is obvious: German is so general and English so specific.
No.
You could, in principle, use the word "widerlich" for all those English words. But you actually only would do so in very specific contexts. But as with any translation site, context is, all in all, too much. You can not give ALL the context to any given word. Neither in English nor in German.
However - and that is the crux - in English a lot better than in German.
See this table of translations does not mean the simplicity of meaning it implies - it rather means a simplicity of context. English is - compared to German and I think compared to many other languages - extremely context-independent.
My favorite picture is this: English is like lego blocks. You but some blocks together as you like and it works. German is like a tree. It all needs to grow organically, you can not just switch branches. Rather every branch got its own - kinda clumsy (hence English music flows better - just for its interchangeability) - music.
In English, there are no branches. Just different towers of all the same blocks.

This naturally makes English more globally logical, while it makes a Continental language like German more locally logical. The difference is, global logic rests on a simple universally and absolutely clear preceding of thoughts. Basically like a maths of thoughts. Sounds good.
Continental logical, in philosophy at least, rests on a consistent logic, as well. Of freaking course. But only locally consistent. Meaning, you don't aspire to use the same categories as EVERYONE - as you would in mathematics - but choose your own which best fit what you need or want to say.

IMO, both schools of thoughts have good reason to exist. The English school of aiming for a universal and hence objective philosophical logic is valuable for obvious reasons. It, after all, represents the most the scientific ideal.
However, truth is, philosophical subjects DO NOT MEET strict scientific criteria. And we can not force them to do so. Reason being: A lot of philosophical subjects, if not all of them, Do So MUCH inherently depend on the human condition and corresponding realm of subjective intuition, that any earnest attempt to objectivity those subjects is to be the most subjection of all.

And all of this is, essentially, encapsulated in the difference of two languages.

GOD DAME!

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Or maybe "widerlich" is the only word for disgust that translation site knows?

 

[Borachio]

I find it hard to believe that "widerlich" is the only word for "widerlich" that German has.

I mean surely it has different words for the sensation of human excrement oozing between your bare toes, and the sensation that one feels when looking at David Cameron.

Ah...No...wait a minute...

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Or maybe "widerlich" is the only word for disgust that translation site knows?

Ohoo! I would love you to expand this interpretation.
Unless you just posted forgettable nothingness for giggles?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Okay sorry. Got defensive in the face of knee-jerks
In one word: no.
Test: search each word in "dict" (just google it). You will find different German words

But way man. Typical pattern of English speaker: "NooooOO! Me English special. Period! Not period - p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c

.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

You seem upset.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Part of the passion. Thanks for noticing. If I am upset in the future, may I contact you? I'd love to. Really would, actually. There are, IMO, never enough people earnestly and thoughtfully responding to ones thoughts.
Now, we talked about something else.
You remember?
I do. I even responded to this something!
Before you ask: Yeah I am upset about you not caring about this topic. Since, this is what this thread is about... you know....and you even took the time to respond to just this topic of just this thread...
But I guess just relating to it on the far edge in an effort to just call me confused or even dumb will do it all justice. Buttmuck. If you had any idea, you would state it. Believe me. (still would contact you for the given reasons - hey bad personal advice is still personal clear advice)

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Friendly word of advice: if you're going to insult somebody, don't show how easy it is to press your buttons.

Anyway, the reason I asked is you were probably going too far with conclusions based on a shoddy translation website. What you wrote regarding philosophy is interesting, and deserves better foundations than the proverbial house built on sand.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Thanks for the advice. But you do not seem to see the world I see on this medium. Playing games of vulnerability - I do them, anywhere. Being a person and all. But I openly like to run head against such tactics on here. Going by the philosophy of not acknowledging their merit. Not that I was beyond their sway, am not, and sometimes, I will play. But often, I will not act glacially, by the terms of this game, on purpose. Because I like it this way. Because I hate its rules and results. Because I can. In reality, I actually act similarly, I just find more instances where I have to consider its rules intact. And then I may comply, sort of. Or not. I have never find that I can totally predict what course is best, but was regularly surprised by idealistic ways.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Anyway, the reason I asked is you were probably going too far with conclusions based on a shoddy translation website. What you wrote regarding philosophy is interesting, and deserves better foundations than the proverbial house built on sand.

Well I guess what you do not see is that my conclusions are actually based on years of intensive experience whit both languages and I just used that example - you describe as shoddy - to illustrate.
I guess it may very well be shoddy.
Sorry, I thought I saw a short cut.
Now what?
Why is it shoddy? I do not think you actually said so. I may see why. But it require to get off my lazy ass and earnestly think for a while. Got a short cut for me, please?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Ekelhaft, grauenhaft, gräßlich, abstoßend, abscheulich, widerwärtig...
All synonyms for disgusting (or abhorrent or whatever).
I think you used a bad dictionary for the OP. It translates repulsive and odious as widerlich, but the literal translations are abstoßend and anrüchig. There are many more bad translations there, but I can't be arsed to go through the entire list,

 

[red_elk]

But way man. Typical pattern of English speaker: "NooooOO! Me English special. Period! Not period - p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c

Yes, sometimes they are just widerlich.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Did you know that no language got as many words as the English language?
That is because English is the whores of languages if there ever was one. And that is because it got not soul. It just adjusts and assembles like bricks, which was my point.
[Dislaimer: "I object to describing females with frequently different partners as whores. Moreno, I personally approve of their message. However, I also will not yield from the richness the word "whore" culturally carries."}
Whereas German is like a plant. Full of bothersome and outright infuriating limitations and cumbersome rules - but also full of subtle meaning flowing as the vanes of a flowers and which English does not have. Does not have on a elementary level. As in - WILL NEVER HAVE. CAN NEVER HAVE. BEYOND ITS SCOPE
Now since this is beyond the typical terms of perception and discussion, I expect this point to have either zero responses or ill-formed angry responses.
I'll be here.

 

[Hrothbern]

The Dutch dictionary "de Grote Van Dale" is currently at 225,000 words with 309,000 meanings.
http://www.vandale.nl/ondersteuning/redactie
It would surprise me if all that shows up when I use a translation tool on internet from another language.

And I have actually no idea how that 225,000 compares to other languages.

 

[Borachio]

Now then. Look what I've found.

Satz
Paar
Garnitur
Service
Spiel
Bastelkasten
Malkasten
Baukasten
Reihe
Serie
gesammelte Ausgabe
Kassette
Zimmerflucht
Gesamtausgabe
Kreis
Bande
Kurs
Menge
Programmnummer
Buhnenbild
Szenenaufbau
Gerat
Apparat
Gruppe
Haltung
Frisur
Form
Richtung
Vorstehen
fertig
bereit
starr
unbeweglich
festehend
fest
festgesetzt
bestimmt
ausgemacht
entschlossen
stellen
legen
setzen
einstellen
aufstellen
festsetzen
festlegen
aufgeben
bestimmen
fassen
einlegen
einlassen
decken
einrichten
untergehen
hart
fest werden
gelieren
zusammenwachsen
farbbestandig werden
vorstehen

Apparently, and don't quote me since I don't know more than four words of German, all those words above can be translated by the single word "set" in English.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but the premise that German relies more on context than English may not be all it seems.

 

[Hrothbern]

there are also words that have überhaupt no English equivalent like
Dutch onthechten, polderen,
German Hoffnungsträger, Restoptimismus

 

[warpus]

I see you've discovered widerlich.com

 

[Peuri]

By that definition of what is logical for a language, finnish has to be the most illogical language in the world. "Kuusi palaa" can mean 9 things depending on the context: 1. a/the spruce is on fire 2. a/the spruce is returning 3. six slices 4. your moon is returning 5. your moon is on fire 6. the number six is returning 7. the number six is on fire 8. six things are on fire 9. six things are returning.

More importantly I am pretty sure that language philosophy after the later Wittgenstein has put more emphesis on context instead of individual words and their meanings or even sentences.

 

[Borachio]

Albanian has 27 words for moustache. Allegedly.



Actually, I don't think it has. As far as I can tell, those are just adjectives.

And, of adjectives alone, English itself has not a few.

 

[uppi]

My favorite picture is this: English is like lego blocks. You but some blocks together as you like and it works. German is like a tree. It all needs to grow organically, you can not just switch branches. Rather every branch got its own - kinda clumsy (hence English music flows better - just for its interchangeability) - music.
In English, there are no branches. Just different towers of all the same blocks.

You can swap out and rearrange lego blocks, not so much syntactical elements in an English sentence. Lego blocks connect to each other, English sentences connect only loosely. English is more like a Jenga tower. You have blocks that you can arrange in a few ways, but do anything else and it collapses.

I disagree that you cannot switch branches in German. You should generally avoid it, but you can do it, while it is impossible in most cases in English.

This naturally makes English more globally logical, while it makes a Continental language like German more locally logica

l. The difference is, global logic rests on a simple universally and absolutely clear preceding of thoughts. Basically like a maths of thoughts. Sounds good.
Continental logical, in philosophy at least, rests on a consistent logic, as well. Of freaking course. But only locally consistent. Meaning, you don't aspire to use the same categories as EVERYONE - as you would in mathematics - but choose your own which best fit what you need or want to say.

It is more like English needs global logic to compensate the missing local logic. There is no reason that a German text cannot be globally logical as well, but it can get away with less and still be comprehensible

IMO, both schools of thoughts have good reason to exist. The English school of aiming for a universal and hence objective philosophical logic is valuable for obvious reasons. It, after all, represents the most the scientific ideal.
However, truth is, philosophical subjects DO NOT MEET strict scientific criteria. And we can not force them to do so. Reason being: A lot of philosophical subjects, if not all of them, Do So MUCH inherently depend on the human condition and corresponding realm of subjective intuition, that any earnest attempt to objectivity those subjects is to be the most subjection of all.

I disagree that English is a good language for science. For these subjects you want to have clear unambiguous grammatical constructs to make a rigid logical argumentation. The lack of grammatical depth of English forces you to rely on linguistic nuances to convey scientific nuances. Because you have to know all these nuances, English is a language that is easy to learn, but hard to master. German is harder to learn, but it gives you a better toolbox to express complex ideas.