A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback

[modifieda4]

It also stops the AI from Chopping all Jungle tiles. And it's designed to stop the Player from chopping all Jungle tiles like what has been going on in vanilla Civ for ages. JosEPh

I think a better way to ensure late game jungles and forest is to adapt the tree nursery as I have.

Early in human development jungles and forests were clear cut. thats how it was.

My tree nursery mod adds +1 happiness to the tile only during the development of a forest. That is the incentive to grow a forest. Once a forest is spawned, that bonus is removed.

The AI/Player then has a choice of what to do with the new forest.

In my experience the AI leaves the forest and either preserves it (to get the happiness back) or adds a lumber mill.

This seems to work very well in my nextwar style mod over the many games i've played.

The same logic could be applied to jungles and jungle camps.

Basically: allow for early clear cutting, reduce the incentives you have added, add incentive later via the tree nursery and the AI will tend to make the logical choice relative to the era of game play.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I understand what you all are saying. But I've taken a different path. And it's going to take several games to see what it accomplishes. Initial reaction of OP I expected. But I'm also telling you play with it some more.

I have a question to all that have commented, how many of you ever use a Tropical climate setting on your map of choice? I would venture that to a person it's rare. Why? Because vanilla Civ has taught us that Tropical, ie., Jungles are "bad".

I'm not trying to make AND an "historically correct mod". But I will ask this, were did the early great civs spring up? Were they high latitude or equatorial? How many and what type of places in the world have we found ancient civ's ruins? Most were tropical and the notion that they All chopped down the tropical vegetation in their surrounds is absurd. The very tropical rain forests and jungles supplied their food and building materials for the most part. Just because Sid decided that jungles were "bad" in the game sense does not mean they have to stay that way. And I've changed that in AND2.0 with Vincentz Jungle Camp modmod as a model.

JosEPh

 

[modifieda4]

food for though: i think of easter island and england as good examples where humans clear cut all their forests during expansive growth.

 

[Arkatakor]

Just because Sid decided that jungles were "bad" in the game sense does not mean they have to stay that way.

And they should not be that way. What a lot of us are trying to simply state is that while we agree jungles in vanilla were given poor treatment and needed a buff, now we feel the buffs have gone too far, thats all. Imo a slight nerf tweak would remedy this as per my suggestion in my previous post.

To conclude, I don't feel strongly enough about this issue to keep on debating about it as I prefer OP jungles than UP jungles. If you guys feel the jungles should stay as they are, then its best to leave them at that

 

[JosEPh_II]

I am listening to what you all have been posting. But before I consider any changes I want more play thru games from you all for a proper evaluation.

Just initial or one time play thru's is not going to convince me. Nor will several play thru's on 1 type of map and map settings will do it either. Diverse conditions, with several play thru's for each, will give a better pattern of results. In other words 1st impressions (no) vs a statistically reproducable pattern (yes).

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Diverse conditions, with several play thru's for each, will give a better pattern of results. In other words 1st impressions (no) vs a statistically reproducable pattern (yes).

JosEPh

I totally agree on this one. In fact the same goes now for research speed, production, culture and so on. It's almost impossible to balance the game in every aspect but I think now it's good enough with the most used mapscript at least. I'm still trying to improve the balance for different speeds and mapsizes but as I said in an earlier post, it's a hard job. I suggest everyone who reports a OP or UP problem try at least 2-3 totally different settings to check if the feature is really OP or UP or if it's something dependant on some settings-related factor. Or at least, if you report something that's OP or UP in your view, specify please every setting you're using.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@45*38'N,
During the rebalancing of AND2.0 after SVNn 600 was City Maintenance Costs increased?

@2800BC I established my 3rd City under Depotism. I had been running at 70% Research with Gold/turn at -1. My Maintenance almost tripled and I went to 0% Research with -4Gold/turn. I had enough Archers and Javelineers to have 4 in each city and 2 workers and a galley. Within 5 turns I have lost all Javelineers (over half my forces), both workers and the galley and I'm still -1 gold/turn at 0% research. This is on Epic game speed and Monarch difficulty level.

This is too much maintenance burden for early game.

Also on a different note, Perfect Mongoose Map will not load. I gave it 45 minutes for a large map with 11 AI and it stopped responding. Loaded a Lakes map (with same # of AI) in less than 2 minutes.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@45*38'N,
During the rebalancing of AND2.0 after SVNn 600 was City Maintenance Costs increased?

No, Maintenance Costs haven't been touched, so it could be just a matter of how the game is developing for you (if you haven't experienced it in other games).

@2800BC I established my 3rd City under Depotism. I had been running at 70% Research with Gold/turn at -1. My Maintenance almost tripled and I went to 0% Research with -4Gold/turn. I had enough Archers and Javelineers to have 4 in each city and 2 workers and a galley. Within 5 turns I have lost all Javelineers (over half my forces), both workers and the galley and I'm still -1 gold/turn at 0% research. This is on Epic game speed and Monarch difficulty level.

This is too much maintenance burden for early game.

This could also depend on how far you've built your city; from Chiefdom to Despotism you go from - 50% Maintenance for all cities to +25% for number of cities and +25% for distance from capital. Again, I had no problem so far with maintenance; but please anyone else reporting this kind of problem let me know (and of course you too Joseph if it happens in another game).

Also on a different note, Perfect Mongoose Map will not load. I gave it 45 minutes for a large map with 11 AI and it stopped responding. Loaded a Lakes map (with same # of AI) in less than 2 minutes.

JosEPh

It happened to me too sometimes. Creating a PM map is always longer than any other mapscript but if it takes more than 10 min I assume it's gone on a loop and I simply terminate the civ4 process and restart.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Each city's Fat X touch each other, so distance I would think should not be a factor, especially for 3 cities. :/

I sure hope REV is Not On by default. Same for City Limits? If not, why does Chiefdom still carry a 3 city limit?

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Each city's Fat X touch each other, so distance I would think should not be a factor, especially for 3 cities. :/

I sure hope REV is Not On by default. Same for City Limits? If not, why does Chiefdom still carry a 3 city limit?

JosEPh

AFAIK Chiefdom is the only civic that limits you to found max 3 cities. Revolution has always been on by default and you have to check "No Revolution" in the starting options if you don't want it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

AFAIK Chiefdom is the only civic that limits you to found max 3 cities. Revolution has always been on by default and you have to check "No Revolution" in the starting options if you don't want it.

See what the Flu does to you! Twist things up in your head. I'll shut up now.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

See what the Flu does to you! Twist things up in your head. I'll shut up now.

JosEPh

So by accident you've started a game with Rev ON? LOL...
I hope you recover soon from the flu

 

[JosEPh_II]

Me too! 3+ days of fever then sweats, then body aches, sore throat and congestion. The USA is getting hit hard right now. Just another statistic in the haystack of flu.

JosEPh

 

[buck beach]

Me too! 3+ days of fever then sweats, then body aches, sore throat and congestion. The USA is getting hit hard right now. Just another statistic in the haystack of flu.

JosEPh

Sure hope you can't get it over the Internet.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Be sure to always wash your hands after handling the internet.

JosEPh

 

[buck beach]

Be sure to always wash your hands after handling the internet.

JosEPh

Especially if you have been surfing for porn.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Sure hope you can't get it over the Internet.

Oh well, I have a good antivirus, so I think I'm safe

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

To put this back on track. Version Beta 3, SVN 602

1. Missing CIV4Alerts_WarTrade in the bug screen 4th tab from memory (Doh!!) IN the bug screen.
2. No "Respawn Holy City Option" and it doesn't work when the holy city is destroyed. So not on by default, and not an option.
3. Inquisitors, I'm still banging on about this chestnut. I have researched Intolerant, I have adopted the Civic in religion, of intolerance, yet, I still have inquisitors greyed out, when I select "show unbuildable units, or not at all, when I choose hidden. So WHAT AM I MISSING OUT ON. Don't just moronically say "well I can build them" EXPLAIN, version of mod, etc.

Do I need another Technology, I haven't researched liberal as yet, so its not that.

And further, what is "free religion" civic's, is that a hangover from the unmodded Civ 4?? I assume so.


Further notes on game play.

The AI's seem to have an inordinate love of the Civic's ;

Intolerant - THEY run this in most cases.
Pacifism - In conjunction with Intolerance.

Now I play with aggressive AI, so war's abound, but as a pacifist, they war CONSTANTLY. Yes, I'm the same, but I win, crush in my wars, not sending stacks of troops to their virtual death (it is a game ha ha). This only, combined with revolutions, only raises the level of unrest and destroys the AI's Civilization.

Note from Current game, Playing Immortal, Giant map, marathon speed. Revolutions on, Rom Continents.

Lots of spawining of Civs, even though I set it to city size 7, they just kept spawning and growing, now set to 10. Rebels, keep popping up all over etc.

On 2nd Continent, 3 civs were actually above me in score, one civ 300+ points well done. (but I was playing assuming, we were the advance continent)

On options, namely high to low option. I'd recommend, don't play with Revolutions on, bad idea, too many 1 city Civs, to try to recover yourself. I've world built out 3 or 4, but more keep popping up. Tried to seed my low civ, but new ones keep popping up as 1 city rebels.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

To put this back on track. Version Beta 3, SVN 602

1. Missing CIV4Alerts_WarTrade in the bug screen 4th tab from memory (Doh!!) IN the bug screen.
2. No "Respawn Holy City Option" and it doesn't work when the holy city is destroyed. So not on by default, and not an option.
3. Inquisitors, I'm still banging on about this chestnut. I have researched Intolerant, I have adopted the Civic in religion, of intolerance, yet, I still have inquisitors greyed out, when I select "show unbuildable units, or not at all, when I choose hidden. So WHAT AM I MISSING OUT ON. Don't just moronically say "well I can build them" EXPLAIN, version of mod, etc.

Do I need another Technology, I haven't researched liberal as yet, so its not that.

And further, what is "free religion" civic's, is that a hangover from the unmodded Civ 4?? I assume so.


Further notes on game play.

The AI's seem to have an inordinate love of the Civic's ;

Intolerant - THEY run this in most cases.
Pacifism - In conjunction with Intolerance.

Now I play with aggressive AI, so war's abound, but as a pacifist, they war CONSTANTLY. Yes, I'm the same, but I win, crush in my wars, not sending stacks of troops to their virtual death (it is a game ha ha). This only, combined with revolutions, only raises the level of unrest and destroys the AI's Civilization.

Note from Current game, Playing Immortal, Giant map, marathon speed. Revolutions on, Rom Continents.

Lots of spawining of Civs, even though I set it to city size 7, they just kept spawning and growing, now set to 10. Rebels, keep popping up all over etc.

On 2nd Continent, 3 civs were actually above me in score, one civ 300+ points well done. (but I was playing assuming, we were the advance continent)

On options, namely high to low option. I'd recommend, don't play with Revolutions on, bad idea, too many 1 city Civs, to try to recover yourself. I've world built out 3 or 4, but more keep popping up. Tried to seed my low civ, but new ones keep popping up as 1 city rebels.

Since we're talking about an SVN version, I'm reporting your suggestions in the correct thread, here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=474185&page=4

 

[Sgtslick]

Did towns always give +1 ?
Maybe give them another or something, I changed all my towns to farms when I saw this, they were totally ruining my cities. That together with shaft mine +1 meant my people were never healthy.

Also, have you thought more about giving lumbermills +1 or even +1 after certain tech or with a certain civic perhaps.