45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Arkatakor, I've seen your posts, there's no need to post them again in other threads. I'm working every day on AND2 so don't worry, I'm aware of the problems. I've added your bugs to the to-do list. Thank you.
A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback
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Arkatakor, I've seen your posts, there's no need to post them again in other threads. I'm working every day on AND2 so don't worry, I'm aware of the problems. I've added your bugs to the to-do list. Thank you.
Arkatakor
King
Ok my bad; wont be double posting in the future - thanks for looking into them!45°38'N-13°47'E;12082270 said:Arkatakor, I've seen your posts, there's no need to post them again in other threads. I'm working every day on AND2 so don't worry, I'm aware of the problems. I've added your bugs to the to-do list. Thank you.
viator
Wanderer
45°38'N-13°47'E;12080868 said:
Another part of the solution may be the way you have to install Civ4 BtS in a 64 bit system. See Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION IV > Civ4 - Technical Support "Installing Civ 4 on Windows 7/Vista (32-/64-bit)" which inmho also goes for Windows 8. (I use ROM-AND 1.74D and no CtD yet)
Link : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=408537
Hope it works for you!
Arkatakor
King
Another thing about AI and civics is that the AI seems to have an overwhelming preference for running intolerant all the time (even in the transhuman era), which gives it research penalties.
Speaking of the transhuman era, Having played thru it properly, I have come up with the following observations:
1) I feel the dreadnaught unit (the one with 240 strength) should be made a national unit again with a limit of 5. Among some reasons is that other niche armored units in the transhuman era (such as stealth armor) simply dont have a place in late game as they all get replaced by the dreadnaught unit. This leads to the dreadnaught units just being used in all situations because of their sheer strengh. Then it simply becomes a question of having more of them than your opponent rather than being creative by varying your armored units.
2) The dreadnaught unit is also irritating when its placed in a city because it makes it impossible to click on the city itself since the unit is so huge. I am not sure if one can make the clickable area of it smaller?
3) I feel the heroic promotions and high maintenance cost should be restored for the dreadnaught should the decision be made to make it nationalized again.
4) The Advanced Warmachines tech should be a requirement to build dreadnaught units.
5) I am considering whether it would be good to remove, or otherwise reduce the strength of the final units in the tech tree which are the hi-tech robot, and sentinel. They are very uninspired units and seem to make all the other units obsolete. I am simply trying to figure out a solution where all units in the transhuman era have their niche and uses (like maceman / crossbowmen, mounted units) rather than being replaced by a single unit. My take on it is that the dreadnaught should be nationalized, and be made the most powerful unit in game. But I need to experiment more with the future era units as I have not figured out the rock paper scissor's combinations for all of them yet.
6) Tech research is still way to fast in the transhuman era (I play on normal speed)
7) I am not up for much new content, but would love to see an an exception made for something that has been bugging me for quite a while: It would be great to see a newer settler type units beyond the pioneer which would found cities with more buildings than the predecessor settler units. In the transhuman era you could have something like a colony pod (think alpha centauri) that by default founds a city with almost all the modern era buildings and some transhuman era buildings.
8) I am thinking that upon research of ecological engineering it should be possible to terraform marsh terrain into grassland.
With AND 2.0 I have also taken note of a new bug, though I am not sure if this is intentional. If you acquire a tech or a resource to build a particular unit or building, it only becomes available to build on the next turn after you fulfilled the requirements for building that unit / building. For example, if I discover democracy and make a civic change, after my anarchy is over, I can see that the Agora building in my city build screen but its greyed out so I cant build it. On the next turn I am able to build it. This applies for units as well and having the resources to build them.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
9)(Bug). That is a carryover from C2C iirc and was intentional...then. I don't remember the reason why though.
8) Has been done in C2C, could be done here, maybe...
7) There is work on that idea in C2C but it's not done yet.
6) 45* is still working on it.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1) Under consideration...
JosEPh
8) Has been done in C2C, could be done here, maybe...
7) There is work on that idea in C2C but it's not done yet.
6) 45* is still working on it.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1) Under consideration...
JosEPh
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
2) I think in most versions double-clicking on the units in the city opens the city too.
Or press the insert key on the keyboard, this opens closest city.
Thought I'd pop by to see how things are coming in the AND2 world. Funny how every six months or so, I get an itch to play Civ IV.
I've downloaded the up-to-date AND2, and I see that the the horseman / calvary free commando promotion is still around. Do people like this addition? Or has no one gotten around to removing them? I've done it for myself before when I was fiddling around with AND 1.75x. If people are interested, I could probably adjust the xml for AND2 and send the file to someone with check in rights. Thought I'd offer since I saw it on the "to-do" list for AND2.
I've downloaded the up-to-date AND2, and I see that the the horseman / calvary free commando promotion is still around. Do people like this addition? Or has no one gotten around to removing them? I've done it for myself before when I was fiddling around with AND 1.75x. If people are interested, I could probably adjust the xml for AND2 and send the file to someone with check in rights. Thought I'd offer since I saw it on the "to-do" list for AND2.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Thank you, but I've done it already; a lot of people were complaining about this feature
I still haven't uploaded the files I think, but I will soon; the problem is that sometimes enemy units can use your roads anyway and I'm working on this problem too.45°38'N-13°47'E;12093186 said:Thank you, but I've done it already; a lot of people were complaining about this feature
You know what, I vaguely remember the AI somehow being able to do that forcing me to go back to earlier versions of the game. Hopefully you can figure it out.
Glad you guys are more in polishing mode trying to finish AND rather than keep over-engineering it. It used to frustrate me to no end how good AND was, but it was never quite finished.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
9)(Bug). That is a carryover from C2C iirc and was intentional...then. I don't remember the reason why though.
8) Has been done in C2C, could be done here, maybe...
7) There is work on that idea in C2C but it's not done yet.
6) 45* is still working on it.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1) Under consideration...
JosEPh
6) should be better now; I've released rev602; further improvements should be made but I think it's good enough for the moment.
1) Dreadnought Armor is again a national unit; I feel Arkatakor advice on other armor units in comparison with DA was correct.
4) that's ok too in rev 602
8) will be included in a future revision
2,3,5,7,under consideration but not on priority list.
Arkatakor
King
Thanks for taking these suggestions into consideration, in particular the dreadnaught armor.45°38'N-13°47'E;12095472 said:
I am thinking that if there is a will to implement new settler type units, if the bottle neck for creating such content is graphical, it could facilitate things to use an existing vehicle based 3D model, like the mechanical infantry with guns removed and a white color.
Speaking of mechanical infantry, they dont have the city garrison promotion available to them. Is this intentional? Last I checked they may actually already have some default city defense attribute. I will recheck this.
Does AND2 still use civs put in the \modules\Custom Civilizations folder? I was experimenting with adding a few civs, but they are not being used. New leaders put in Custom Leaderheads still works. Yes, I used the installer jar file. Not expecting people to solve my problem, just wanted to check if someone knows specifically that this doesn't work anymore. This worked in the past, I just had to tweak some of the civics in the Leaderhead info sometimes.
EDIT: Got it working. Disregard.
EDIT: Got it working. Disregard.
So I'm plugging along on my first play through...and my first bit of feedback: Jungle / Jungle Camps are WAY too good now.
I just had a lousy start in the hills surrounded by forest with no river. I figured a resource would appear, but nothing yet...maybe there will be some iron, but I'm only at the bronze age so far.
So I dig a mine, carefully build up some forces with my little size 1 city, and finally at the dawn of the bronze age, I conquer my neighbor's capital, who is on the edge of a jungle with river. WTF! I wondered how he had a size 6 city, and I see it is because his jungle squares are producing 4 food, 2 hammer, 3 commerce!!!. The jungle produces 2 food, the jungle camp 1 food 1 hammer, the river access gives 1 hammer, 2 commerce, and tribalism gives 1 commerce. Naturopathy gives another 1 food to the camp, for a total tile yield of 9 at the dawn of civilization!
I understand jungles used to be a bum deal when you started off in them. They were treated with a western bias as "bad terrain" to be developed. But these changes flip the opposite way -- lets not romanticize what a stone age society can get from the jungle, because if you apply the same logic to regular forest and hills, we see that there were ways to live well in them too.
After a bit of fiddling, I propose the following balance:
Jungle terrain gives default -1 food and -0.50 unhealthy.
The Jungle Camp gives back 1 food. ( I removed 1 hammer)
The River access on jungle camp gives 1 hammer, 1 commerce. (I removed 1 commerce)
Naturopathy still gives 1 food.
Medicine still gives 1 commerce.
Tourism gives 1 commerce instead of 2.
Nomadic trait still gives the jungle bonuses, which makes jungle phenomenal for them.
This would allow those early game jungle camps on a river to give: 3 food, 1 hammer, 1 commerce, plus the 1 commerce for tribalism at early game. This is a 5-6 tile yield. This is a really good all around tile yield, especially early in the game to help grow cities. It won't outproduce early farms anymore, so it creates choices about how to manage the tile as new technology becomes available. Currently you the jungle is as valuable as a rare resource and is more productive than other terrain benefiting from agricultural and industrial development, which seems imbalanced to me.
I just had a lousy start in the hills surrounded by forest with no river. I figured a resource would appear, but nothing yet...maybe there will be some iron, but I'm only at the bronze age so far.
So I dig a mine, carefully build up some forces with my little size 1 city, and finally at the dawn of the bronze age, I conquer my neighbor's capital, who is on the edge of a jungle with river. WTF! I wondered how he had a size 6 city, and I see it is because his jungle squares are producing 4 food, 2 hammer, 3 commerce!!!. The jungle produces 2 food, the jungle camp 1 food 1 hammer, the river access gives 1 hammer, 2 commerce, and tribalism gives 1 commerce. Naturopathy gives another 1 food to the camp, for a total tile yield of 9 at the dawn of civilization!
I understand jungles used to be a bum deal when you started off in them. They were treated with a western bias as "bad terrain" to be developed. But these changes flip the opposite way -- lets not romanticize what a stone age society can get from the jungle, because if you apply the same logic to regular forest and hills, we see that there were ways to live well in them too.
After a bit of fiddling, I propose the following balance:
Jungle terrain gives default -1 food and -0.50 unhealthy.
The Jungle Camp gives back 1 food. ( I removed 1 hammer)
The River access on jungle camp gives 1 hammer, 1 commerce. (I removed 1 commerce)
Naturopathy still gives 1 food.
Medicine still gives 1 commerce.
Tourism gives 1 commerce instead of 2.
Nomadic trait still gives the jungle bonuses, which makes jungle phenomenal for them.
This would allow those early game jungle camps on a river to give: 3 food, 1 hammer, 1 commerce, plus the 1 commerce for tribalism at early game. This is a 5-6 tile yield. This is a really good all around tile yield, especially early in the game to help grow cities. It won't outproduce early farms anymore, so it creates choices about how to manage the tile as new technology becomes available. Currently you the jungle is as valuable as a rare resource and is more productive than other terrain benefiting from agricultural and industrial development, which seems imbalanced to me.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Nope, I do not want it changed. I built it that way for a purpose.
A time in the game will come when you will have to make a hard decision to remove the JC for another type tile improvement.
It also stops the AI from Chopping all Jungle tiles. And it's designed to stop the Player from chopping all Jungle tiles like what has been going on in vanilla Civ for ages.
This mod also was abysmally slow in AI Civ development in the early Eras. JC gives the AI a better base to build on.
This was not a willynilly addition to this mod. I had worked on it for over 2 years before I became an AND2.0 team member.
Sorry but I'll not change it.
JosEPh
A time in the game will come when you will have to make a hard decision to remove the JC for another type tile improvement.
It also stops the AI from Chopping all Jungle tiles. And it's designed to stop the Player from chopping all Jungle tiles like what has been going on in vanilla Civ for ages.
This mod also was abysmally slow in AI Civ development in the early Eras. JC gives the AI a better base to build on.
This was not a willynilly addition to this mod. I had worked on it for over 2 years before I became an AND2.0 team member.
Sorry but I'll not change it.
JosEPh
In my current game the Civ that is in the lead by a large margin started in the jungle, and no wonder. Being able to pull 4 Food, 2 Hammer, 2 Commerce out of the Jungle/River tile so early is far better than everything else except building a farm on a flood plain river tile. I guess that was the goal, to make the AI avoid chopping in favor of farmed flood plain river tiles.
In the early game, a good non-resource tile usually lets you get 4-5 yield out of it with an improvement, with the exception of farmed Flood Plains which give 6-7. Mines, Farms, Cottages all allow roughly 4-5 yield depending on whether they are by a river and what exactly they are on. Forests are not so good until you get to a tech level to make a lumber mill, and the AI is going to chop them too.
Having jungle/river give 8 yield is pretty unbalanced in the early game now, but you guys are supporting the mod now, so I can respect that and make my own tweaks.
Arkatakor
King
Having read this and other comments here I am leaning towards the opinion that jungles are slightly OP in the early game. I think a simple fix to this would be that:
1) Jungles produce 1 food by default instead of 2.
2) All the other bonuses from jungle camp improvements and techs (tribalism / naturopath) would continue to apply.
3) Add an extra +1 food or +1 hammer (or maybe even both) for jungle camps upon discovery of Calendar to even things out in the classical era.
So in short where I am going with this is to nerf jungles slightly early game and boost them classical / mid game. Just food for thought.
As a long time lurker i finally decided to post. I played 1.75 and older versions and recently installed latest svn and its look good, but i must agree with cykur on the jungle camp issue, it is little unbalanced in its current state as it basically dominates early game and makes jungles too important. Especially Jungle-Forest difference is too drastic. I think either jungles should give 1 less food or jungle camp shouldn't give a food bonus(directly). River bonuses to jungle camps are high as well (lumbermills only got 2,jc got 3) but not problematic as food bonus.
Another think i spot paved roads,sewer system and public transport etc. still have high maintenance costs which make them unusable(at least on paper) Is this a problem or am i missing something? (extra roads and trade buffs hardly grant that much money)
Another think i spot paved roads,sewer system and public transport etc. still have high maintenance costs which make them unusable(at least on paper) Is this a problem or am i missing something? (extra roads and trade buffs hardly grant that much money)
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Another think i spot paved roads,sewer system and public transport etc. still have high maintenance costs which make them unusable(at least on paper) Is this a problem or am i missing something? (extra roads and trade buffs hardly grant that much money)
I'll have a look into this. As for Jungle Camps, I still haven't played enough to judge; but if Joseph has worked on it so long, I think they should be ok. If it turns out they're too overpowered, Joseph and me will find some way to tweak them. Bear in mind that it's possible to judge if some feature is causing problem in a game only if you have done multiple tests with different settings. A feature can be overpowered with some settings (mapscripts, difficulty level and so on) and perfectly fit or even be underpowered with other settings. It's very hard to balance every feature to work with every setting.
Edit: And welcome to the forum Sires
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