A Petition to Merge NES-IOT

[spryllino]

That's not how elitism works.

Well, in that case, we're not very elitist. It's quite easy to gain respect as a decent NESer in the NES forum if you do it in the right spirit and don't vandalise the game - but you do have to try to be good at it, by and large.

 

[Crezth]

Well, in that case, we're not very elitist. It's quite easy to gain respect as a decent NESer in the NES forum if you do it in the right spirit and don't vandalise the game - but you do have to try to be good at it, by and large.

And yet this doesn't stop NESers from saying "no, don't let the IOTers come in here in droves, they'll ruin our stuff."

The attitude of the NESers doesn't reflect the reality of the situation at all. They think they're a special, elite, club - but this isn't the truth so much.

 

[spryllino]

It's not a binary situation like that. We warmly welcome any IOTers who will play in the right way, but we don't welcome all of them, since some of them probably won't play in the right way.

We're not so elite that we won't happily let people join if they want to play in the spirit of the game - but we are sufficiently elite that we have standards that droves of IOTers, all coming at once, are unlikely to meet, or even to try to meet.

 

[Double A]

There are right and wrong ways to play freeform forum games?

Wow, I'm so glad I know that now.

 

[Shadowbound]

Also, some NESers should take part in IOT, if they want. There's some good ones going on at the moment, ones that I would join if I had time.

Good sir,

Why, pray tell, do you propose I strip off my clothes and descend into the jungle, wearing nothing but a loincloth and carrying only a spear and cowhide shield? We agree in that IOTers could benefit from learning from the sophistication of the NESing community, but the reverse is hardly true. My safaris into IOT over the past few days have more and more cultivated the belief that it is a moral responsibility to instill proper values in the sadly ignorant denizens of IOT.

*puts monocle back on*

 

[hoplitejoe]

We're not so elite that we won't happily let people join if they want to play in the spirit of the game - but we are sufficiently elite that we have standards that droves of IOTers, all coming at once, are unlikely to meet, or even to try to meet.

Why do you think that every IOTer will want to play in NES? Just like some NESers won't join any IOTs I have no interest in joining any NES.

Why this petition was made was an attempt to get a larger audience for IOTs, not to abandon them and all join NESes.

 

[Tee Kay]

Why this petition was made was an attempt to get a larger audience for IOTs, not to abandon them and all join NESes.

The NESers are saying they won't play IOTs.

 

[hoplitejoe]

And a lot of the time that is fine, if they don't think they will join an IOT then that is not something for me to worry about. The two times where it is different is when a NESer doesn't join an IOT because they don't know about it or don't want to go to both subforum this merge will help. When they don't join due to some idea that IOT is somehow "lower" then the problem is theirs.

 

[Tee Kay]

Or they're just not interested?

 

[Angst]

To be fair, I just glanced over the IOT forum and there's just not that much to interest me. Province based systems aren't my thing unless they're intentionally silly - and pretty - like Daftpanzer's stuff or CNES.

 

[North King]

Why do you think that every IOTer will want to play in NES? Just like some NESers won't join any IOTs I have no interest in joining any NES.

Why this petition was made was an attempt to get a larger audience for IOTs, not to abandon them and all join NESes.

So if the two are separate things, why are we merging them?

 

[GenMarshall]

Merging NES and IOT. All I can say from a quote from Cowboy Bebop: "I don't know and I have no opinion".

 

[Crezth]

So if the two are separate things, why are we merging them?

Deliberately missing the point. RPGs and first-person shooters are "separate things" and both discussed in Other Games.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Well, in that case, we're not very elitist. It's quite easy to gain respect as a decent NESer in the NES forum if you do it in the right spirit and don't vandalise the game - but you do have to try to be good at it, by and large.

And yet this doesn't stop NESers from saying "no, don't let the IOTers come in here in droves, they'll ruin our stuff."

The attitude of the NESers doesn't reflect the reality of the situation at all. They think they're a special, elite, club - but this isn't the truth so much.

There is a critical difference between striving for a high standard of decorum and actively antagonizing prospective participants outside of the established clique. Before IOT even existed, I had made tentative forays into the NES forums and must have found the community at a low point, because I could not believe the animosity some of the players held toward what appeared to be new recruits, for reasons I could not even see in the context of the games. And I'm not talking about people like christos; these poor sods seemed to be wholeheartedly trying, but were being tarred and feathered for violating some invisible custom tied to identity politics rather than play style. The unfortunate consequence is that I have generally avoided NES ever since out of this sense that unless you can magically swoop in knowing the entire history of the community by heart and hit all the right keys blindfolded, you're an untouchable whom the community big-wigs will never truly consider one of their own. It is the same attitude that I observe in almost all the NESers who have thus far spoken out against the proposed merger.

 

[Terrance888]

I don't play identity politics, and the more we talk the less I want to deal with that sort of thing. Count me disgusted with certain NESers not specifically for their views, but how they choose to express them consciously and unconsciously.

 

[talonschild]

Hear, hear.

 

[hoplitejoe]

So if the two are separate things, why are we merging them?

I am against the merge, certain NESers make this hard though.

 

[carmen510]

If the purpose of this merger is to seek out new players for IOTs, it was a decent goal with poorly advised means. The NESing community is well aware of the IOT community and it has been the choice of most NESers not to join in, for reasons that generally sum up to "I'm not interested in that type of game". Ditto for many IOTers that have not joined NESes.

If one seeks new members, it would be a far more productive venture to bring in people from the active Stories & Tales boards; that is, after all, how NESes got started and attracted people throughout the years. There are far more people in those boards, and many are more likely not to have heard of IOTs and might take interest. People involved in cooperative stories like Realpolitik or those interested in creating narratives might easily find IOTs or NESes suited to their tastes.

 

[North King]

Deliberately missing the point. RPGs and first-person shooters are "separate things" and both discussed in Other Games.

First of all, you can't assume intent here, because you have no idea what my motives in posting any one thing are. So no, you don't get to say I'm "deliberately" missing the point.

Second, your point is utterly fallacious. Let's take a look at Other Games.

Huh. I guess this implies that a high volume of threads on a single subject, like Alpha Centauri, justifies splitting it off from the rest of the games forums. Which means, given that NESing and IOT both have high volumes of topics on separate lines, that there's no reason to merge them based solely on any degree of similarity. You have to prove they are functionally the same -- proof which has been utterly lacking in this thread, as even posts by those supporting the merger state there is significant differences in the community and social atmosphere. Which, given their nature as social games, must necessarily mean they are significantly different products.

There is a critical difference between striving for a high standard of decorum and actively antagonizing prospective participants outside of the established clique. Before IOT even existed, I had made tentative forays into the NES forums and must have found the community at a low point, because I could not believe the animosity some of the players held toward what appeared to be new recruits, for reasons I could not even see in the context of the games. And I'm not talking about people like christos; these poor sods seemed to be wholeheartedly trying, but were being tarred and feathered for violating some invisible custom tied to identity politics rather than play style.

sorry, but can you give some concrete examples of what exactly you mean?

 

[GenMarshall]

There is a critical difference between striving for a high standard of decorum and actively antagonizing prospective participants outside of the established clique.

That's why I don't venture too much into NES. I tried it myself, but found the atmosphere to be not friendly to new players.