[RD] Abortion, once again

[Zardnaar]

It's the end of the world for the people this affects, and will cause harm (and death) to.

And if you think a new Roe vs. Wade can just be done "further down the line", you really don't know anything about US politics. There's a reason the whole SCOTUS thing has been scrutinised so heavily over the past few years. They're lifetime appointments.

Like I said: telling people to "deal with it" (or words to that effect, including "face reality") is not helpful advice. You are not helping by saying it. Sure, we can't change anything legally in the US, either of us, but we both participate in this thread where US posters also post. So, maybe try less alienation, and a bit more support? See how that works out for you.

Why Cloud craps all over people all the time. I'm blunt this is reality.

And yes I'm well aware the judges are lifetime appointments. Might take a generation or longer.

Thought I have been consistent on the culture war. Harder you push the harder they push back. They're better at pushing.

I'm not saying the message is wrong but the messaging.

A lot of this was predictable but if you point this out you get called a bigot or whatever. More of an observation of the USA where a good chunk of the electorate has less than enlightened views.

 

[Fippy]

US politics have been so disturbing for many years now..
honestly it affects everybody. In european countries there are also Trumpists now. Covid took their paranoia levels to new heights.
Everything spreads fast with social media. So my point basically is that one countries problem can become worldwide fast.

And sure, posting on CFC will not change anything. But i can understand every frustration voiced, certainly feels like the world has become worse "recently".

 

[Gorbles]

Why Cloud craps all over people all the time. I'm blunt this is reality.

What does your opinion of another CFC poster have to do with your apparent refusal to accept that "the sky is falling" is a pretty apt metaphor for Roe vs. Wade being repealed?

You can think of Cloud whatever you want. That doesn't make what she's saying wrong. Nor does it make what I'm saying wrong either.

And yes I'm well aware the judges are lifetime appointments. Might take a generation or longer.

That sounds like a lot of people have to suffer and potentially die in the meantime. And you're sitting here arguing that people are being too dramatic about it?

That doesn't seem very helpful. Heck, it sounds wrong. People have every right to be dramatic about something like that.

Thought I have been consistent on the culture war. Harder you push the harder they push back. They're better at pushing.

Blaming one side of the "culture war" for excesses done by another side isn't putting the blame where it's deserved. Again, you're not helping. You're just pushing people away.

A lot of this was predictable but if you point this out you get called a bigot or whatever.

This being an RD thread, citation needed. I have a feeling that if names are being thrown around, the cause may be a bit different to what you say they are

 

[Zardnaar]

What does your opinion of another CFC poster have to do with your apparent refusal to accept that "the sky is falling" is a pretty apt metaphor for Roe vs. Wade being repealed?

You can think of Cloud whatever you want. That doesn't make what she's saying wrong. Nor does it make what I'm saying wrong either.

That sounds like a lot of people have to suffer and potentially die in the meantime. And you're sitting here arguing that people are being too dramatic about it?

That doesn't seem very helpful. Heck, it sounds wrong. People have every right to be dramatic about something like that.

Blaming one side of the "culture war" for excesses done by another side isn't putting the blame where it's deserved. Again, you're not helping. You're just pushing people away.

This being an RD thread, citation needed. I have a feeling that if names are being thrown around, the cause may be a bit different to what you say they are

I think both sides of the culture war are to blame and it's ripping the USA apart. The GoP is worse though so for 70-30 or 80-20.

Not that I care to much about the date of the USA but it's the collateral damage. Still even if they go full insantity it's 1950's-70's they can still do that bulwark job against even worse regimes which is one of the few things it's good at.

 

[Zardnaar]

US politics have been so disturbing for many years now..
honestly it affects everybody. In european countries there are also Trumpists now. Covid took their paranoia levels to new heights.
Everything spreads fast with social media. So my point basically is that one countries problem can become worldwide fast.

And sure, posting on CFC will not change anything. But i can understand every frustration voiced, certainly feels like the world has become worse "recently".

It's gonna get worse before it gets better. If it gets better.

China economic crisis, pandemic still doing it's thing, war in Europe etc. Interesting times 1929-36 or so condensed into 2 years yay.

 

[Gorbles]

I think both sides of the culture war are to blame and it's ripping the USA apart. The GoP is worse though so for 70-30 or 80-20.

Not that I care to much about the date of the USA but it's the collateral damage. Still even if they go full insantity it's 1950's-70's they can still do that bulwark job against even worse regimes which is one of the few things it's good at.

The US has no left wing in politics, excepting singular politicians that in no way reflect the dominance of both parties. The Democrats are right wing. The Republicans are just further right.

Regardless, blame the culture war as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that the sky is falling, and people are going to be reacting to this with an appropriate level of anger and frustration. Talking down to them won't fix anything.

 

[Snowygerry]

The US has no left wing in politics, excepting singular politicians that in no way reflect the dominance of both parties. The Democrats are right wing. The Republicans are just further right. (...)

It has no right wing either, Trump is by old European standards a leftist, a populist if you will - but certainly not "conservative" in any classic meaning of the word.

Here he would be considered a "parvenu" - bourgeois at most.

Since they have only political parties anyway - it matters little.

 

[Gorbles]

It has no right wing either, Trump is by old European standards a leftist, a populist if you will - but certainly not "conservative" in any classic meaning of the word.

Here he would be considered a "parvenu" - bourgeois at most.

Since they have only political parties anyway - it matters little.

While I could disagree until the ends of the earth, it doesn't really matter. Trump is irrelevant. The Republican Party is right wing. Simple as.

 

[Snowygerry]

It is "right wing" because they have only two parties - one would obviously be to the "right" of the other.

Here the US republicans would be considered a centrist, Catholic party.

US democrats likely "social-democrats".

But neither would be on an extreme end of the political spectrum, the differences between both are minimal imho.

 

[Yeekim]

Wokeism" is basically counter productive and sometimes life's a poo sandwich

I would agree to this in a vacuum, but abortion rights are not "wokeism"... nor is overturning them an appropriate counter-reaction to "wokeism".

 

[Farm Boy]

50 states instead of one federal is a song that plays in eras the federal has its hands full. The US and European global order seems to be shattered in war. The federal is going to have its hands full. Interesting times.

 

[Zardnaar]

I would agree to this in a vacuum, but abortion rights are not "wokeism"... nor is overturning them an appropriate counter-reaction to "wokeism".

No but pushing wikeism isn't gonna win elections which enables things like this.

Electoral blowback from Obama and Hilary was entirely predictable. Progressives go all gooey and then proceed to get owned.

Is it rascist, sexiest, absolutely. Is it fair no but that's the electorate you have to appeal to.

In a way the democrats have segregated themselves geographically with policies aine at liberal urbanites while writing off large chunks or the country. And the elections come down to a handful of purple states that don't always go your way.

And even without that there's a large amount of decentralization so different states have different laws and that's working as intended.

So looks like that's gonna apply to abortion.

Left blames the right for delegitimizing things but watching stuff on CNN/MSNBC they seem to be doing the same thing.

Yet I can read and it's legal AFAIK. Not saying it's right, wrong fair etc but the SC can over rule previous rulings. It's rare apparently but legal.

I pointed this out a while ago and yet people were claiming it's a constitutional right when it's not as it doesn't say. Sure you can interpret it that way but logically you can also interpret it the other way as well.

It sucks and I think it's horse droppings myself but it's working as designed.

 

[Zardnaar]

50 states instead of one federal is a song that plays in eras the federal has its hands full. The US and European global order seems to be shattered in war. The federal is going to have its hands full. Interesting times.

Well that and they might have bigger things to worry about. That whole war thing for example.

 

[Gorbles]

It is "right wing" because they have only two parties - one would obviously be to the "right" of the other.

Here the US republicans would be considered a centrist, Catholic party.

US democrats likely "social-democrats".

But neither would be on an extreme end of the political spectrum, the differences between both are minimal imho.

I wasn't aware Belgium was so right-wing with regards to the Overton window. Here in the UK, (where Jeremy Corbyn was famously painted with all kinds of "Communist" associations, despite a Norwegian politician saying he'd be nothing more than centre-left in Norway), the US is generally-accepted to be right-wing.

The Republican Party is increasingly courting white supremacist talking points, with elected officials parroting this kind of extremist rhetoric. This isn't the only example of extremely right-wing politics, but if that's what centrism is in Belgium, I'd be pretty shocked. But, again, I have no idea, so it could've simply passed me by r.e. politics in European countries.

 

[Zardnaar]

I wasn't aware Belgium was so right-wing with regards to the Overton window. Here in the UK, (where Jeremy Corbyn was famously painted with all kinds of "Communist" associations, despite a Norwegian politician saying he'd be nothing more than centre-left in Norway), the US is generally-accepted to be right-wing generally.

The Republican Party is increasingly courting white supremacist talking points, with elected officials parroting this kind of extremist rhetoric. This isn't the only example of extremely right-wing politics, but if that's what centrism is in Belgium, I'd be pretty shocked. But, again, I have no idea, so it could've simply passed me by r.e. politics in European countries.

I think people have unrealistic expectations if Europe due to things like free healthcare.

But a lot of places elect neo lib right wing conservative with a small c in liberal Europe. Merkal lead Germany 16 years iirc.

Probably doesn't help with polarization online or you get things like Orbans Hungary and Poland diverging on things like Russia despite annoying the liberal (sorta) EU.

And you'll get divergences on specific issues as well. Most people lean one way or another but there's probably 20-30% of issues they diverge on.

 

[Snowygerry]

I wasn't aware Belgium was so right-wing with regards to the Overton window. (...)

Our right wing is righter, our left is lefter

Since both US parties subscribe to the US constitution and Bill of Rights, equal individual rights and guaranteed minority rights, and only differ in details,

both would considered "left of centre" here, historically speaking.

 

[EvaDK]

Pretty shocking news honestly. I guess women are in real danger to become second rate citizens in the US, without jurisdiction of their own bodies... in the era of MeToo.

Also - how come the US Supreme Court gets to make such a landmark decision - Supreme Courts are not lawmakers; the Parliament aka United States Congress makes - or unmakes the laws.
The Supreme Court should be tasked with interpretation of the law and being the guardian of the US Constitution. The threefold division of power of a democracy. Or am I missing something in a US context?

 

[Akka]

If you consider Republicans to be "left", you must have an extremely skewed view of what is "left". Republicans would be between "hard right" and "far right" here, and I doubt that France and Belgium have such a gap in their average.

 

[AdrienIer]

Is it rascist, sexiest, absolutely. Is it fair no but that's the electorate you have to appeal to.

You're essentially saying that the democrats need to be racist and sexist in order to avoid racist and sexist people from winning elections. Do you not realize the absurdity of your position ?
Wokeism doesn't exist at any meaningful level. It's a right wing fabrication, where they take a local situation somewhere and stretch it until they manage to make it look bad.
The "left being too far left" in the US is a huge fabrication by the right wingers. The democratic party is pro tax cuts, pro corruption, anti change. It's just that the republican party is much more so, and also actively advocating for a return to mid twentieth century policies (or even mid nineteenth century) on subjects like women, gay people, black people. Hence why this SC decision happened. So instead of doing a "both sides are bad" argument, how about we look at who is pushing for unacceptable policies are call them out for it ?

Since both US parties subscribe to the US constitution and Bill of Rights, equal individual rights and guaranteed minority rights, and only differ in details,

Guaranteed minority rights is definitely not a welcome idea in the republican party

 

[Snowygerry]

Sure it is - they only differ in which minorities they serve, the Kentucky Coal Miners helped Trump to his election victory - a minority if I have ever seen one

the last election was decided in Georgia - again a minority, just another one.